So-are we talking pilot lights or headlamps on dip?
I nearly always ride with my dip beam on.
TC-is it the case that car drivers pull out of a junction thinking the biker has "flashed" them out?

If the big 4 do go ahead, i for one would be looking at changing the wiring-or just keep my beloved ZZR

Another problem(?) with bike lights is when following cars you often dazzle them just because your headlight is right in their rear view mirror. Generally the poor lambs haven't quite figured out what that little lever on the bottom of the rear view mirror is for ... but even I've noticed the flash-back from that mirror whn approaching a car at night from the rear.  
(Oi! Steady you lot! Linz and Ash might be reading this!!)

I guess in bright conditions with the sun behind you, the light does more harm than good. But is it not the case if you follow the directions of the Driving manual and/or the Highway code, as they relates to motorcyclists, that the light should be on during the day? Was there not an insurance case about this in the press a while ago about the insurance company questioning liability because of this or similar - or am I havering  - again /still?

I'll look forward to hearing TC's tales once he can relate them. However, surely there must be old/similar cases TC that you can relate that involve similar circumstances - or have we found new ways to seriously injure ourselves?   :tounge:

Headlights? (Spud flexes fingers) Don't get me started.

Oh, you have.

I, for one, think that it' all gone a bit mad. The whole one-eyed monster from 2001 (I think) is totally crazy?!? Bikes are only allowed to have one dipped light showing in case dozy, sleeping car driver thinks its a far away car. Train the car driver!! Don't leave the motorcyclist half-blind!! My older style Sprint has a pair of headlights and they are sooooooo good I wouldn't dream of getting another bike with a single light unit. Does anyone else remember the Father Ted sketch where Ted is trying to teach Dougal the difference between small and far away? (They were on holiday in a caravan and Ted was holding a small plastic cow and then pointing out the window saying "Far away ....")

On the Daytime Running Lights type of thing, it looks like the whole of Europe is heading that way for cars too. Doesn't make it right. I was lucky enough to live in Australia for 10 months and all the bikes there had the lights hard-wired on since 1994 or 1995.

I had a Japanese grey import (1998) over here and it was the same. The most significant downside was it ate a perfectly good battery in 2 years. The light wasn't that great but I'll admit to not worrying too much about it.

Overall, I don't like the choice being removed either, but where do you draw the line? Anyone want to drag up the helmet debate?  

I for one don't like being dictated to, especially when there's no evidence of a safety improvement. Maybe it is time we removed all airbags and placed a sharpened spike in the centre of the steering wheel. It might also make drivers less inclined to drive right on your number plate .....

- Spud.

I tend to run with my dipped beam on all the time anyway.

Even in the "summer" the visibility and light can be poor and in my experience it can help to increase your visibilty to other road users. But they can hear me approach from about a mile and a half out anyway.

On the subject of "flashing" people out of junctions and side roads, if you are flashed you should never assume it is safe to pull out. If a car is turning into your junction then you should not pull out just because they are indicating. Surely this is(should be) basic knowledge of all road users.

What are thiose wee blue lights in lorry windscreens? Seems they're in cars now too. I had thought they were summat to do with speed cameras/radar etc.

Cheers TC-I look forward to the facts when you can discuss those cases.
I have enough belief in TC's credability to act on what he suggests-so as of now my lights will be on only when reqd.

There is also a school of thought that the use of headlights (particularly main beam) during the day makes it more difficult for other drivers to judge your speed, so even if they do see you they may think they have more time to pull out than they actually do.  Dipped beam is advisable but don't rely on it, always assume that haven't seen you.

In view of the above, I may well reconsider my reckless behaviour.  They'ss still go on full beam when filtering tho  

Guess I'll start top worry when some of these feckwit fairweather foglight flashers start to get done   :tounge:

not bad alliteration for a feckin freezin foggy friday

I wouldn't agree with it either. Its kind of hard to talk about without getting into a discussion about the benefits or drawbacks. I'd like to have the choice in such matters.


Is it Sweden, who currently have daytime running lights. Which is why a lot of the volvos have them fitted. It is to keep manufacturing costs down, if I'm not mistaken. Then again, I could be wrong. It has been known to happen.  

I'm with spud on the single head-light thing - bike lights are not usually the most brilliant of things, and why we should have the capacity cut by 50% just to cater for bling feckwits ....

I always ride with headlights on - dipped at night and generally full beam the rest of the time - don't like getting hit - and while there are cases of accidents caused by having lights on, I guess its impossible to determine how many there might be if all bikes switched them off.

TC you've been referred to on another board FJROwners.com as still dealing with the cases you mentioned but possibly taking action against the manufacturer. Anything more you can say at this point or is it still too early. I have a particular curiosoty about this one as I have been given no choice in whether I have my lights on or not and when I had the accident on the Viffer the insurance company asked me whether I had my lights on. Seems at odds to me that on the one hand insurance companies are potentially trying to attribute blame according to whether or not a rider had his/her headlight on and the potential for this to contribute to an accident rather than reduce it.

I agree with the idea of DRLs though. Oddly the FJR has small sidelights either side of the headlight which come on with the ignition but are completely swamped by the headlight as soon as you start the engine. Now why couldn't they just make the sidelights a little brighter and leave me the choice over whether I put the main headlight on or not?

Just to add to this...

I was involved in a similar debate on a car forum the other day and it was figured there that keeping car heads on, even at dipped or side, would be beneficial.
So why is it different for bikes (please excuse the ignorance) - I find that every bike round here has one out of the two front lights always on. And it helps me to see them and pick then out from the traffic, esp if they are filtering thru (my car is v low and so sometimes I can't see up and over to helmet level - depending on who is parked next to me - so the reflected headlamp is a bonus)

I can understand why mainbeam should not be used tho (are you talking about FULL or the dipped main tho?))

If cars also had their headlights on all the time bikes with lights on would be less conspicuous at a distance because they would be hidden in all those headlights. Smaller DRLs (more akin to sidelights) are a different matter though. When talking about the main headlight I was talking about dipped beam not full beam. I would never ride with full beam on during the day.

There have been two occasions when I have become confused about how far away a bike is because of the headlight. Okay, thesewere at night but considering I ride a bike and look out for them, it was still pretty scarey. I found it really hard to judge the distance and speed because I was blinded by the brightness of the headlight.

The front of the bike does tend to move more than a car, which could probably add to the confusion.

Hmmm, some very very good opinions.

Personally, I ride the new daytona, so I dont have the option of turning my lights off. However, whenever I ride any bike (and ive ridden a few), I always have my dipped lights on. Purely because I think it gives me better chances of being seen and that car drivers think twice about pulling out because it is more likely to be a bike because most people down here (Cornwall) ride with dips on.

I like the comment about train the f'ing car drivers. This to me has to be the only way forwards. for the following reasons:

1) he highway code says - A flash of the lights may be used to indicate your presence. I.e. NOT 'here pull out mate, I am looking forward to going through your back window at 80mph .... etc...

2) I have ridden and driven a fair bit on the continent. France for example, dipped lights are compulsory. Italy, lights (and horns) are used to warn people.

3) They are aware of bikes, the capability of bikes to to travel at speed and to get up there quite sharpish. Wishing to overtake 95% of europeans on the road, requires (assuming safe to do so) a quick couple of falshes of lights, european car driver pulls over, indicates and lets you through.... Piece of cake. This is why the flash light button has 'PASS' written somehwere near it.

hmmmm, I will stop now... Sorry

Nate