I currently have a 99 CBR 600F with 20K miles which I love and have no problem with it what-so-ever. I commute to work most days and love to get out a the weekend on the country roads and it seems to manage all I ask of it with no problems. Really no reason to change it to be honest (ok at Knockhill I was really suffering not having a few more CC on the straight as I kept catching the bigger bikes at the corners and then getting dropped on the straight but trackdays are not my thing anyway)

However, the wife is about to sit her test and I have said (in a moment of madness) that she can have the CBR and I will get myself a new bike. Seemed like a good idea a the time to get an excuse to treat myself.

Now I am kinda stuck what to do. I dont think getting something like a fireblade is worthwhile since I want to commute on it still and since I have only been biking for 2 years 1000cc is probably too heavy and will be wasted on me. That said whats the point in getting another 600 other than it being a lot newer (budgeting about 5K somewhat optimisticaly)

I did wonder about a GSXR750 but not 100% sure I still like how they look (I really wanted one before I got the CBR but now think they are bit square in places and a short ride on the 600 version showed it sucked for commuting). Found a few CBR Rs in Two Wheels that I really like the look of but not sure it would be worth buying another CBR.

But I do like the look of this...


Any recomendations on what I should look at?

Do you actually want a sports bike?

I understand the attraction, but if you want to commute (will this be the majority?) then perhaps something a bit different...

Sports-tourer
Adventure
Naked
Cruiser
?????

I dont like the look of naked bikes and after riding my Dads Dulsville a Harley Electric Glide on holiday and my mechanics FJR I have come to the conclusion I would get very bored very quickly riding anything non sports. Actually the FJR was not too bad but a bit detached after a while.

Thats why the CBR f seemed like the ideal option (even over the RR) as it was sports orientated without braking my writsts (at least so I read and now agree with). Its just what to move to that would be worth a the change without ending up knackering my back witha fuel bill to match my car hunced over on an R1...

The Hanspree replica I am liking the look of as it has the same metalic white paint job as my car lol (but I know nufink about bike racing or if that will make it more difficult to sell on)

KTM Adventure? Mate of mine has one and he reckons it's the mutts.

Anything non-standard on a racing bike will make it harder to sell.

Non-standard paint job = "has this bike been crashed and repaired? If they don't want to fork out for the original decals, how cheap a job is it?"
Quickshifters and similar craziness = "this has been caned"
Sports exhausts = "It's been dropped on an exhaust, or they've been charging around like a loon"

Shops much prefer stock bikes as trade-ins because they're easy to shift on. So, I don't know if the paint job your looking at is a factory job, or aftermarket, but that's something to bear in mind.



Now, it sounds like you want something that's quick, lively, but friendly. Something that will commute as frugally and easily as your CBR-F, but will keep up with the big boys on the new 'Blades and R1s around Knockhill. Yeah - good luck with that. I think I saw one of them once. The guy was also selling the moon on a stick.

Remember that the sportsbike market comes down to making the fastest, sharpest-handling bike in a certain size class. If you can shave off 1kg and add 1bhp then you get the jump on your competitors, despite the fact that doing that just made the engine lumpy and peaky, and the clutch snatchy. If your arris is pointing at a cloud and your face at the fuel tank, so much the faster...

The CBR 600F and the Thundercat really marked really the last usable everyday racing bikes, in my mind. After that they started to get too focused on that last ounce of performance to be good for anything urban.

If most of your bike use is commuting, you could always have a look at the SV-1000 or Fazer 1000. Both will be stupidly quick on a track, but also sit-up-comfortable in town. Pop into Carrick / Saltire and have a look or a shot.

Or pick up an older Fireblade. To as sharp as the new ones, and quite heavy if you're used to a 600, but still fast, and not too uncomfortable.

Either way, the power rangers on this year's GSXR1000 will still beat you up the straight.

Wot he said ^^^

But, the Hanspree Honda colour was a limited run of official machines, it's not a one off job so you won't see the usual depreciation you would associate with custom paint

There's nothing wrong with heading to 1000cc, I'd only been biking on my ZZ600 for a couple of years before I went to a Thunderace

Lets face it, you NEED somethink bigger or the wife's going to make you look slow

you could always get a

HAHA - Yup that is indeed something I need to serioulsy consider.

Yeah I think I may be hoping for too much. One change I need to consider is although I am comuting it is pretty much just the A1 and city Bypass these days so dont have to consider the commuting aspect as much as I once did as dont ride through town all that much now I think about it.

Keeping up with the faster bikes is not so much the priority as opposed to something I can enjoy riding without clenching my cheeks together (a description of the CBR which is another reason I bought it)

Wondering if an RR will be enough of a change from the F to warrant it or indeed perhaps I should consider a fireblade.

You know, I reckon it'll spoil your usual ride. By all means get into 2-Wheels and have a sit on one, but I suspect you'll find it like my Ducati - a pretty committed riding position. Your F is a pretty relaxed position, so it's easy to ride all day or in traffic or whatever. Once you get into the whole arris-in-the-air thing it gets pretty tired pretty fast when you're stuck in traffic.

With that sort of bike you really need a fast environment - either a track or quiet, sweeping rural roads - or your shoulders and neck will be screaming at you. Not much fun trying to ride the clutch when all your weight is on your wrists...


If you really fancy something faster, an older litre-class bike may well work for you. It'll still have the relaxed riding position you're used to, but a lot more grunt. But it will be heavier in the corners. Original FireBlades have a 16" front wheel to help themturn in quicker, but I believe it's an acquired taste.

If you wind up with a 10-yo bike, you can get "modern classic" insurance too, which will be cheaper.

I could say more, but I have a toddler interfering with my laptop...

nuther good thing about a 10+year bike is you'll not lose bucket loads of money if you don't like it.

Did the early Blade have a 16inch front?? I thought everyone had figured it was a bad idea by the late 80's lol, my GSX has a 16 front and its... erm INTERESTING! Tiz great if the roads nice

I know nothing about sports bikes, but I do know there's a difference between a sports bike and a commuter, and never the twain shall meet!

Why not get another CBR if that's what you like?

Just had another think about this over dinner. If you're keeping the 600F (for the laydee), would you still have daily access to it? Because if what you're looking for is a second bike to take out with the wife on a nice day, but you'll either share a bike daily (or it'll just be you using it) then go nuts!

A focused racing bike as a *second* bike is great - a machine that you can take out for a blast on nice roads on a nice day, and see how close you can get to the edge of the tyres! I'd be a hypocrite if I said otherwise...

But again, you might be able to squeak it through the corners at Knockhill like a demon, but you'll still get your arris handed to you on the straights by the litre bikes. (Of course you may have more fun than these folks - I know my little 748 is an epic blast!)

They had a 16" front wheel until the 929

They compensated for the small rim by having a higher profile tyre, so the rolling radius, and hence the geometry, is about the same as a 17" wheel, but the unsprung weight (i.e. the dirty great lump of cast ally) is smaller.

Like most owners, I find it works fine on the road, although Phil MacAllen predicted that extreme riding would lead to tyre creep, and he was right, if you're a TT racer and really on it. For mortals, all it does is limit your tyre choice a bit. Racers swap the wheel for a 17" rim to use a lower profile front tyre, so that under hard breaking into corners the tryre doesn't deform so much.

The 98/99 Fireblade, the last of the carberetted ones, is a good all round bike. 185 kg dry, good pokey motor with a decent spread of power, described when it was launched as a soft, sports tourer by the journalists, who'd know, of course. Described by Phil MacAllen, who is a 12 times TT winner and Fireblade developement test rider, as the fastest fireblade Honda had made yet, and the easiest to ride fast. He then went on to win the relvant TT race easily on it.

You can pick them up quite cheaply, although the 96/97 bikes are easier to get plastics for and are virtually identical apart from minor changes in riding position and engine tweaks. I love mine, it's 11 years old now and still a good bike.

Arguably a better road bike than the 916 was. Smaller rear tyre meant it turned better, and having less power made it more usuable. I've only ridden a 748 once (I think it was an S) but it was a fine bike.

Aprilia V4 RSV1000 - the RC30 brought up to date.

Italian, though, so ...

Yeah. Never taken the 748 out on a track, but I tried the 996 on the road - like a tractor. My point being that you can have a laugh on it, and probably moreso than the litre-warriors. They have to beat you to keep their pride intact, whereas you just need to put on a spirited effort :)






...gorgeous, entertaining, inexplicably desirable, but crippling on the servicing!

That's an important thing to consider if you're looking for a sharpened racing bike. My Ducati is about £220 for a minor service and £480 for a major one (they alternate, and it wants serviced every 12 months / 6000 miles). To an extent that's just Ducatis (I spoke to a guy at Squires who gets stung £700 every service for a 748S), although the newer ones are cheaper. But if I were starting again I'd look at the servicing costs as well.

(Once again, the 10yo litre bike is a winner there too. And that Blackbird is amazing - the 6000 mile service doesn't really say more than "does it need a wash yet?", and the 12000 mile is the oil/filter change.)

Occured to me this morning riding to work that technically I would still have access to the F so could indeed get something more race oreintated as would not have to use it every day.

However, I tried suggesting that and got corrected that once I gave her my bike it was hers incase she wanted to go out when I was at work (she works shifts) but we can work on that (even if I have to take it every other day)

Part of getting myself a bike is to get something newer which is why I have not looked at the older bikes. Indeed I plan to go to Two Wheels at the weekend and see what they have in stock and after your comments will take a look at the bigger bikes.

I should clarify that KH was the first time I really noticed any issue with the lack of power and since I dont plan on spending much time back their I am much more interested in the enjoyment of throwing the bike down the B roads in Scotland. Sure more power would be usefull at times but I want to be able to chuck the bike about without being scared of it, the tractor analagy is exactly what I want to avoid.

Maybe a 4-cylinder 1000 hypersport would be too much, then, as they are very powerful.

In which case, maybe a GSXR-750 or a 848 would fit the bill if you want new?

I was thinking the same thing (though Alan already expressed a dislike for the GSXR styling). Wilson's in Uphall had a *stunning* 848 on the floor a few weeks ago. I was so tempted to look at finance and chop in the 748, but I couldn't do that - Pudsey's far too pretty, and can be resleeved to 848 anyway with a little work (and probably less expense).

The 848 is much cheaper to service than the 748 too. Ducati Glasgow quote £191 for the minor service and £220 for the major one (though you have to add cam belts to that, which is about another £50). Problem is getting parts. I think Carrick can get parts for them, but you'd need to ask your local (trusted) workshop. Personally I wouldn't trust Carrick to service my Ducati if I'd already replaced the entire running-gear with ham. Maybe that's just me...

Another option in the 600-plus-a-bit-cc range is the Kawasaki ZXR 636. Wilson's (who're a Kwak dealer) have a 2002/52 in at £3200 - 6300 miles. May be worth a gander. Apparently it's a nice balance between the size of a 600 (with more poke than the really racey ones), but with a much smoother power delivery from the few extra CCs. Never ridden one, but it's an option.

Of course, something to consider with all >599cc models is that the road tax is a bit higher. Probably won't put you off, but at least you know up-front.

The belts need doing at regular timed intervals whether you ride the bike or not - more likely to need doing if the bike sits in a garage, in fact.

Yep. Belts at 12000 miles or 2 years, whichever's first. Don't have to worry about that with a nice camchain.

Or gear driven cams

Sounds to me like you will miss the CBR... so why not just get a much newer one? It should be as quick if not quicker than wifey's, and you won't be afraid of it, and you'll be comfy on it.
It's not rocket science lol

Honda cg125 ?

You sound a very committed CBR fan so why not get another CBR? Try the RR, it won't be that different a position and a newish one would be noticeably more responsive and you wouldn't be unfamilier with the handling; easier if anything.

Incidentally, you don't have to lie on the tank unless you are using it like a sports bike, in a location suited to a sports bike. If you are in commuter traffic, you can lift your head above the screen. It is surprising the number of commuters on sports bikes: at least once out of the traffic you can get out of the way.

The GSXR750 was something that I was considering as it has more poke and the newer ones are lovely looking. Just was put of a bit after trying an older 600 which I almost managed to fail to get round a roundabout (tho part of that was riding an unfamiliar bike but the owner agreed with me)

Going to Saltires after work to have a look at what they have as they have a couple of fireblades too so might be able to get a closer comparison to the 750.

Then on to TwoWheels to see what they have at the weekend - if I can get any test rides this would be a lot easier but experience to date has been your not riding it unless your about to buy it...

Of course this is all assuming the wife passes her test next month

ps - budget is close to 5 as possible with some flex for the right bike but 8K seems to be best I an see an 848 for so thats out

5k is a lot of coin to spend. They'll have a demonstrator somewhere that'll give you an idea even if they can't / won't get you onto the actual bike you're looking at. I've certainly never had a problem getting a test - just make it clear that if it's the right bike you'll be buying it.

Here are a few off Gumtree that aren't all that far away:

ZXR7 - fairly old, but looks nice in the photos, and cheap as chips.
ZX6R - the 636 model. Sensible mileage, not too old, lots of toys in it.
GSXR-750 - a fair few miles on it, but might be worth a look.
CBR1100XX - not many pics of it, but it looks nice, and (importantly) it looks stock. Low mileage - the thing's barely run in. Quick oil & filter change and you have a hell of a bike right there, and there's not much it can't do. Though you'll want to steal your old 600 back from the wife if you want to try dragging the footpegs off the road!
ZZR1100 - If I mention the Blackbird, I have to mention this or DP will turn into an angry-wangry!

Of course, if you really fancy dumping all your cash on one insane gesture, there's always the R1!

Anyway, there's a quick selection from 10 mins on Gumtree - often overlooked for BikeTrader.

Wow - thanks for taking the time!

Thing is I want to get something newer with less miles to replace the CBR so few of them out. Also if I am spending that much I probably have to go to a dealer for peace of mind.

Had forgotten about the R1 as I was so focused on the CBRs, will add that to the list.

The Blackbird whilst nice may be too much of a tourer for my riding.

As I say, that's 10 minutes. Didn't exactly take long, but most people forget about Gumtree. Don't know anything about your existing bike though, so I couldn't gauge mileage or age.

Do you mean if you have that much to spend, you'll probably have to go to a dealer to get rid of it all? Well that you probably will... :)

Mind, of course, that all the major manufacturers put together a litre racing bike, so if you've forgotten the R1, there's also the GSXR-1000, and the ZX10R before you even get out of Japan.

I didn't expect you to go for the Blackbird. It comes across as far too sensible a bike - a bit old-man. Not so good for twitching around amongst racing bikes, but it doesn't take much determination to give the big boys a fright. And once you've got it airborne you'll realise that it really can be as mad as a box of frogs. As I say though, I didn't imagine it would be quite what you're after. To be fair, I wasn't certain it was what I was after until I'd had it a few days. Drop the luggage off the back, and it's a mental, mental bike. Won't tell you what speed I hit this morning on the way into work, but I'm glad they closed the road for me and got a stunt rider to do it. Ahem.

How about this ZX10R?
Or a GSXR1000? (Didn't this one have the crazy power switch that let you decide how many mad frogs to put in the box?)

With 5 grand to spend, you really are spoilt for choice. You lucky, lucky bastard! :)

As a (99) Fireblade rider, I'd say the Blackbird is an astounding bike. Think Fireblade (of my bike's era) with more power and torque and a bit slower steering, but without the season ticket to the osteopath.

One of those bikes that you need to ride before making a decision to write it off.

Strange isn't it; we've concentrated on the Jap bike with a small look at Ducatis. Have you though about a Triumph?

I had a 955i Sprint ST for a while and while it's classed in the sports/tourer sector, it definately belong at the sport end of that spectrum. In fact I ended up putting bar risers on it!

TBH a Daytona is a superb choice, too.

Seconded

One of the reasons I ended up with my 12R was because similar Blackbirds were far more expensive :(

I still consider my 12R an upgrade over my R1. Certainly, in some ways, it's slightly softer than the R1, but in others it's got plenty over an R1

Ride one before you write it off Either that or try a 12R (although it will make your 600 look like a push bike - as my mate said, when he parked his next to mine recently)

Well just back from the two Edinburgh dealers, both of whome sugested a 1000cc would probably not be a great idea, esp with only 2 years experience. Insurance is 500-600+ and upwards at least vs 200-300 for the 600 class and with the comuting and tax aspects not sure that would be the right jump right now - I am still working on building confidence to get my knee down and not brake asa much for cornering so want to keep in the flickable class of bike.... not least as I left the garage and went round a rounabout someone pulled across me and I was able to quickly flick the bike around their back bumper - I want to keep that and improve on it!

Looked at the Hanspree CBR posted earlier and two GSXR750s, one of ths GSXRs was a 2009 model but over 6K (but under 1K miles) so probably looking at the 2008 models for just over 5K each, Think there was under 4K on the CBR and over 6K on the GSXR

Insurance on the Hanspree is the most expensive (about £100 more) with a standard RR and the GSXR750 being about the same so thats one black mark already. Howevet it has less mileage and is a rather unique. That said I love the blue and white colour scheme of the GSXR and it looks spotless.

Anyway - booked a test ride on both for this Sunday so lets see how that goes. Suspect I could get a good deal on the Hanspree as they have two identical bikes in the showroom and has pretty much admited that they have more 600s than they want at the moment.

So guess it will be down to what feels right on the day, think I am leaning towards the GSXR for the extra power but the CBR is probably a better buy.

Ps. 06 blade with 6/7k miles for same money is sitting in two wheels so might yet take a look.

EDit - Or not, managed to balls up the insurance quote and now looking at 3-400 for the GSXR (or normal RR), 500 for the Hanspree just because of the paint job, or 800+ for a Fireblade.

Ah - the old insurance problem. Not much anyone can do to help on that one I'm afraid. Unless you accept that the insurance will come out of your 5k, but even then it's a hell of a hit, in the hope that it'll go down next year when you can say "yes" to the "ridden a machine >750cc" question or whatever it is.

As I said, the insurance is a great reason to find a decent bike >10yo, but that's for a miserable old sod like me - my insurance is <£250 for the two bikes.

Shame about that, but I'm sure there are plenty of bikes out there that won't be so brutal on the insurance. Of course you could tell the wife to bugger off, hang onto the 600F for another year, and see how it goes then :)

Just realised I managed to put in that I bought the bike in 2008, as soon as I said it was bought now they all jumped up again, oops!

GSXR seems to be chepest but with massive Excess, CBR Hanspree is more than a £100 dearer but the excess is halfed.

I really like the look of the GSXR, the insurance is cheaper, it should be completely different to ride, have more power etc etc so think I know where I am going but test ride will help that become clearer.

However, the CBR is lower mileage and probably slightly cheaper since they have the two of them sitting there. Also as I will be riding all year I read the GSXR has somewhat thin paint and prone to rust which is putting me of again.

Got a nice day for your test rides. Hope you're having fun out there!

I did indeed, both bikes are now covered in splatered insects lol

Unfortunately I am no further forward.

GSXR first. Sounded great and pulls like a train from the get go. Felt really stable and was impressed how it would pull of no matter what the revs were. A really nice change from the CBR F but mileage is almost 7K and I am wary about build quality and paitn after reading MCN review (will be used all year). Wrists and back were starting to nag a bit (not much tho) after only 30mins hard riding.

CBR was next, almost turned round as soon as I set of as it lacked the punch. However once I got out onto the open road I managed to pull my first ever wheelie oops!! small hump just at the start of the straight and as I cranked it open I was wondering what the fek was going on until the front bumped back down lol.

Anyway it did not have the same power at first but seemed to have a real kick once over 8K. I found the handling to be better but not sure that it was not just because I was used to a CBR or that it was my second time down this road that day.

When I got back I nipped back out on the GSXR and definately appreciate the extra power but that said it actually seemed to lack that kick that the CBR has at the top although you could just twist and go. Was not able to go far as no petrol left so could not really compare the handling properly but it def did not seem quite as sharp.

For what it's worth, if you're using it regularly you'll get used to the seating position so you won't be so achey unless you take it for a long run.

The whole >8k thing is what I was saying about them chasing that one extra bhp - it always comes in at the top end, and you find yourself with a motor that does nothing at the bottom, and has the end-of-the-world before the redline. That's not a big deal if the rev range where it changes is reasonably out-the-way. If it's usable <8000 then you've got all you need for daily work, and then just drop a gear for the days you want to cane it. If you can live with the fact that it's two different beasts it might not make any difference to you. Personally I like the nice smooth transition of my bikes, and it sounds like you do too.

Still, sounds like you had fun. Must go - my little boy is trying to hang off my wall-mounted speakers... :(

Well the price was always going to factor into this one and I have gone a bit over budget but have just put down the deposit on a brand new black and green CBR600RR...


RR9/2009 model pre reg so on a 10 plate (or will be) and massively discounted becuase of this, to the point that it has cost me only 795 more than the same bike I test rode yesterday (which was 1 year old with just under 2K miles and no tax).

So for an extra 800 I get no miles, brand spanking new, 2 years AA, 2 years Manafacturing and no previous owners etc.

But what really swung it was when I called back (first time trying to get a discount on it but they are selling it at cost) and asked about the free Honda insurance offer they do on new bikes... He had to check with Honda but as it is technically new I am covered (touch wood) so knock another 4/500 quid of the price (insurance jumped again when I went from 08 to an 09 for some reason (and I am now paying only an extra 300 for all the above (tho no 150 quid seat cowl on this one but thats my birthday present sorted out lol)

Now waiting to see if we can get insurance to record that I have 2 years NCD as I dont technically have this until the 5th Sept (not that it matters now since I am not paying but in a years time I dont want to have lost a year).

Still like the GSXR but riding to work this morning made me wonder how comfortable it really was since I felt back pain after only 20 mins riding. Also the fact I could ride the CBR better straight away on the test ride is probably better for my learning/safety in the long run. That and this bike will have a way better resale value in a couple of years when I trade it in for a fireblade

Thanks for the help guys, will post up a pic when I get my hands on her.

think I may cry - it has to be garaged to get the free insurance which it aint

Not that unusual these days to require a garage (or incur quite a bit surcharge), I'm afraid. Bikes are just too nickable.

It sounds like you have made a good decision and a nice colour too. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

Hope you get the insurance sorted.

Choice 1:
1 owner, July 09 1800 miles, 1 years manafactures and AA cover left , Seat cowl £6K

Choice 2:
Same bike but prereg so will be brand new on a SN10 plate, 2 years warranty, 12 monts tax etc etc £6795, seat cowl +£150

Both bikes around £450 to insure as cant get free insurance (balls!!)

What would you do?

Get the first one, that pays for your insurance!

Agree, plus you avoid the obligotary 600 mile first service which is another cost to factor in (Honda no longer do it free or at cost of parts only). I regretted buying a brand new bike as first year depreciation is also a killer if you go for a part ex after 12 months.

I just bought a Bandit on an 09 with 1480 miles and 1 lady owner doing dry miles and saved over 2k on new price. I will never buy new again, there are so many bikes out there around a year old with low miles.

If you can afford it go for the new one, that way it's all yours and a real treat for yourself. There are always savings to be made on second hand bikes, but what's the real saving here. You might not have the choice next time. You shouldn't factor in the insurance because that'll be due again next year!

Either way, I'm sure you'll make the decision your happy with.

Thought you had 5 grand to spend. Now you'll be clear of 7 grand including the insurance for the new machine...

It's up to you of course. I've bought new bikes in the past, and it's nice to have a shiney bike with the new reg. But after 6 months it's not a new bike. A decent used bike is as good, and cheaper.

Wouldn't buy a new bike again unless I was feeling really flush. But that's just me - you'll have your own opinion, and your own comfort-zone on buying used.