Ok so it's in the Daily Mail (well our version of it anyway )

MCN

Now I can see why, but is it really a good move or is this just going to be a nail in the coffin for biking?

Now this would remove all the scooter posse from where I live instantly (who ALL think they're better than Rossi )

But is it really a good idea???

Now when I learnt to ride you just went out, bought a bike and got on with it. You did stuff like CBT and your proper test if you actually wanted a license (which I did at the time ) Yeah ok I didn't actually do Part 1 and 2 so I'm not THAT old

Interesting even if it'll never get off the ground

The test has changed throught the years I just got a licence bought a bike taxed and insured it and away I went. A test was only something you took if you wanted a bike bigger than 250cc and after passing a car and an HGV tests the bike was a breeze.

My father in law, who was licenced to drive anything from a bike up to the huge heavy haulage tractors and he never took a test at all they give it to him after the war, he was in the navy so what experience that gave him I dont know.

So learners out in groups only, I really cannot see it happening but who knows.

I see why they would want to do this....to prevent 16 y/o kids from hooning around with no respect for anyone, but it penalises people who want to get into biking as a recreation. Also its a cheap mode of transport for some.....

any legislation that gets put through may help solve a problem, but creates many more problems on a micro scale as opposed to macro, but that's not their prerogative.

Well now...

It brings us back to the argument of which method of learning is better. Would we rather train people on a small low powered motorcycle then allow them to practice on said bike for a few years before progressing to something bigger and ultimately faster/more powerful.

Or do we want to stop people learning 'on the road' therfore forcing them to stump up hundreds of pounds for lessons, go through the DAS type learning experience and then get onto whatever they feel like?

Whilst I did DAS (and so this wouldn't have effected me) I think that stopping learners riding on their own probably won't have the desired effect. People will still do it, they're just more likely to remove the L plates and do it than they would currently.

My only real suggestion would be that the CBT should be longer, more intensive and should cover more aspects of bike riding. Sure doing this will put off some who want to just try it for a day, but doing what is proposed above will stop masses of people from getting into biking.

I think the people that need 'putting off' would be the ones who have realised that for £90 and a days training they can hoon it around on the road... maybe making it a slightly bigger financial barrier and involving more days it would put off anyone who isn't really interested, whilst doing more days training would be a greater investment for most as they would come out with a higher ability and therefore shouldn't require as much training should they want to take their test.

Ultimately something like that should hopefully raise the level of the 'learner' bikers on the roads.

It'll put people off buying a wee scooter to commute. Those who do decide it's worth getting a scooter will be forced to pay for full training and a license, so if they've invested that much it's unlikely they'll bother buying a scooter then - they'll buy a bigger bike. Those who don't decide it's worth it will just stick to their cars.

Either way there's an environmental impact, which is always a good way to lobby these things.

Also, since it will effectively kill scooter sales in the UK, I imagine Vespa, Piaggio, Peugeot et al will have something to say about it. And what about all the parking wardens running about on scooters - I doubt if the councils will pay to get them full licenses.

Crap idea if you ask me, and unlikely to fly even if you tied a balloon to it and glued a load of feathers on...

Hmmm - I don't see why it would have to be an instructor - if they bring in that rule then surely the same should apply to learner drivers who are much mroe dangerous given the size of their "weapon"!

It could be, if it was brought in with paralle legislation that says equally that learner drivers in cars can only be accompanied by qualified instructors (so no going out with a mate, older sibling, Mum or Dad) to make people realise that using the roads isn't a birth right, it's a privilige you have to earn by demonstrating that you are comptent to do so.

I'd put money on this being more sensationalist MCN crap.

look at the terminology, nothing is stated as abolsute its all just peoples opinion.

I'll wait until there is a more reputable source before commenting.

If this is true (I share Finn;'s scepticism) then in principle it is no different to the restriction placed on those learning to drive cars. I have some sympathy with the idea of supervised learning. However, it needn't be an instructor to be a useful learning tool. The French have a brilliant system, L'apprentissage anticipé; de la conduite whereby their learner drivers have initial lessons with an instructor and then have to complete around 3,000Km supervised driving with a qualified driver. Their pass rates using this system are high as these learner are gaining real world experience over a decent period of time with the help and guidance of an experienced driver.

So... Yes, we didn't do it that way when I learned, but then I'm horrified at how easily my inexperience could have killed me. So all change is not necessarily bad and this idea could be a good thing. However, we are talking about the UK government, so scrub that last thought.

Now does anyone else see the basic shift in the underlying tone of these replys? If I read them correctly what we (as motorcyclists ) are saying is "yes i believe we do need legislation to protect ourselves as one or two of us havent the mental capacity to do it for themselves" as opposed to " we are fully functioning, mentaly capable adults, Ffs let us make our own descisions" and we wonder where all the ideas for "nany state" legislation come from

What Biker835 said, to the letter.

I love seeing kiddies hooning about on their scooters. If they're getting a little out of hand, it's time for the friendly bike cop to pull them over and give them a bollocking (note: this is significantly different to a ticket straight out the box).

Worked before; will work again. Hopefully MCN making a story out of a wild suggestion.

I'm beginning to think the number of mentally capable adults in the country can be counted on one hand...

No, I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that learners are vulnerable due to their inexperience. As a professional trainer, assessor and ex-driving and riding instructor, I recognise that sometimes legislation is necessary. A driving license is a privilege that must be earned by demonstrating competence and at present the bar is set pretty low, frankly. The roads are a shared resource and everyone using them should have a reasonable expectation that others doing so are competent. Given that, I am open to possible suggestions for improving the quality of driving and riding.

Over the years I've seen some pretty poor legislation come about - the 250 restriction reduced to 125, for example whereby perfectly good learner bikes were replaced by unsuitably light, powerful machines as manufacturers tried to get around the restriction. That unexpected consequence led to further restriction. Then there was the truly appalling two-part test. So, I treat legislative ideas with caution.

But, in principle, supervised learning is not necessarily a bad thing. And I would certainly like to see something like the French system adopted in the UK.

When my boys were young I had an agreement with them that they would not go the two wheel route and I would fund their driving lessons and go some way to them getting a car. My reasons for this were simple, the roads have become so congested and the standard of driving and at times riding have become pretty poor so by getting them into a car and getting some road craft would make them live longer. Junior now has a bike and really enjoys it and I think always will, my eldest thinks we are both mad.

So giving extra tuition, taking the time to train new riders with give them the skills to survive, how its done is another matter. Just my opinion though.

I got my car license first, and I passed my test easy peasy. I think the extra experience can give you the upper edge I would not have fancied riding a bike after never riding on the roads (Save a 2 hour ride on a CBT)

In my view the government hasn't gone far enough.

I say that they should bring in a three part test for push bikes.

Part one
Would involve a series of low speed maneuvers for 3-5 year olds including safely falling off, ramming into their parents legs and mounting and dismounting the said bike. once completed they can then remove the stabilisers

Part Two
Would involve the use of a more powerful geared bike [not unlike the old grifter or chopper] that must be ridden only with L plates. A further series of tests would need to be passed involving low speed handling, emergency stop followed by a low impact fall, the use of the correct gears for hills, how to pull a wheelie before a further low speed but far more spectacular fall and finally how to place a playing card into the spokes of the wheel with the use of a peg in order to make the said bike sound like a motor bike.

Part Three
Would involve a test on a far more powerful racing bike with a zillion and one gears that will never be used. The candidate must be able to travel at about 25mph but convince everyone that it can really do about 40mph [according to the little speedo on the handle bars] they must also be fitted for a rather unnatractive looking helmet that 'cuts down an wind resistance' and also protects against a high speed fall??? The candidate will have to show competence in weaving in and out of traffic, ignore red lights by mounting the pavement, and the most important aspect will involve the wearing of further protective clothes to include fingerless gloves and tight licra cycling shorts.

Finally a direct access option is open to any person who can prove that there feet can touch the ground on the aforementioned racing cycle so that they can move directly onto a powerful bike.

Mark

I tend to look at this not so much as a biker but as someone living in a rural area.

If learners on scooters were not allowed to ride alone, a significant number of young people would be denied access to work. They'd be in a Catch-22 situation - can't get to work till they get a licence, can't afford to get a licence till they get to work. Not all parents can afford to pay for the training specially when they've probably helped to finance the bike.

My mum did the opposite, her thinking was I'd probably get a bike anyway and whatever you learn first will be the most ingrained and the "fallback" skillset. Reacting like a biker while in a car is usually harmless, reacting like a car driver while on a bike can be fatal.

Hee Hee!
I remember years ago my aunt trying to teach me to drive her car. At the time she was a serving class 1 police driver & thought it'd be a doddle.

She hadn't figured on my 5+ years of riding motorbikes being anything but a bonus...

After about a half dozen times of her having to reach across and wrench the steering wheel away from the parked car that we were going to hit, she called a stop to it all.

I like Mark's answer best.

I'd agree.

Hang about here!!!

Has Anyone even Considered how we'd get our PIZZAs delivered??? huh???

My delivery boys all drive cars. So I'm ok.

I agree with the "bolloking from the copper" bit but I feel that as motorcyclists we have some small responsaability to try and impart our wisdom on the young. I am well known round here for being helpful when the youngsters have a problem or want some advice, but I am also well known for pointing out that some one is riding like a prat and its eventual consequences! You dont have to "talk down" just angle the approach so that they feel foolish rather than thinking they look good, works for me

The whole idea sounds so nuts............. its probably true. Whatever next???? Perhaps its time to change the car driving test, make them bike aware???????

I feel most of the stuff printed in that comic is utter sh1te, lets hope this is too!

What an utterly ridiculous idea. Where's our freedom of choice going these days?

It's just mad enough for someone to pass it as well.

Ebineezer government minister rubbs hands with glee....
"Hmmmm thing of all these lessons required & the vat we will get.......etc etc"

sorry VANDEEN but did u forget? we live in a dictatorship ruled by the premier gordon brown freedom of speech has been outlawed