So the new tests are going well then!

Accidents on new tests

Now I know it's an avoidance manourvre, but givin thatpeople adjust their riding to suit the weather one would assume this should happen in the tests too.

Surely it would show that they're not safe to ride on the road if they DON'T adjust their speed according to the conditions?

after reading that i have to agree. i've been driving for 15 years and adjust the speed to suit the conditions i would not need to pull that manuver in a car at that speed as i would most likly be traveling at a slower speed if it was wet.

I will have to sit this new test and can only say this is nuts.

david

I found a place today, where I could practice this new part 1 test, the course is not perfect but the weather was dry. I double checked that I was able to do this so I have gone ahead and booked my part 1 test.. and I am very aware that if it rains it will be a totally different ball game. I use my own bike and NOWAY am I prepared to crash it for the test.

I rather fail and do it a 100 times.. at a cost of £10.00 each time it would be cheaper than risking my life and lastly damaging my favourite scooter. The next few days I will go out on the road when it is raining.. sigh... but I wont do of road practicing in the rain.. it would be insanity. I agree that the skills are essential but basically with just a CBT and a few months of riding a bike most new bikers wont have the skills.

I am keen to pass my test but I will definately walk away if I feel its not the right conditions..

but they were not allowed to adjust their speed. They get failed if they do!




It's £80 each test though. Not to mention if you have to pay for the hire of a bike and an instructor to go with you if you don't have your own bike or don't want to risk it.

Wrong part 1 is 10 quid only part 2 is 70. So why risk for the sake of 10 quid. i agree if you hv to hire a bike etc who cares about the bike but u only have 1 life.

What IS the avoidance thing anyway?

I've heard a few varying descriptions of it but never seen anything definitive on it- I only know it's to be done at 31mph because the DSA can't tell the difference between "Recommended Speed" and "Mandatory Speed"

All the artical says is a "Change Of Direction"- I'm guessing your not expected to get suddenly your knee down and just swerve around a cone in the middle of a track.

So it is - though part 2 can actually cost £82 itself depending on when you take it. Also of course if you keep failing part 1 and it takes you more than two years it's another £31 for another Theory test.

However the point is that they should be making allowances for weather just as most riders do and they are not. Just like they implemented a totally unecessary test in the first place!

It wouldn't be nice to get a broken arm. But at the same time, I do not think that swerving out of the way of something at 31mph in wet conditions is too high a standard to be asking for from the riders.

I actually prefer the new test (from what I've read about it). The only thing I don't like is the lack of test centres.

I could've had about 15 shots at the first part of the test if it was around when I passed for the money that I spent on failing.

Are you saying David that after 15 years driving you drive at less than 30mph when its raining?

I dont know much about the new test for bikes but when I took my HGV test its required to carry out an emergency stop from 30mph even if its raining, I think its called reality testing as some times it rains when driving. So maybe this new test is proving a point that the candidates taking their test need to up their game!

Just my opinion but maybe somebody who has more information about the testing can explain the different parts of the test.

I'm just glad I passed when I did - wouldn't fancy doing all this part 1 then part 2

So you are traveling along the motorway in the rain (I would assume your doing more than 31mph...) and a couple of kids drop 2 breezeblocks from either side of a bridge (which seems to happen fairly regularly going by the news...), it doesnt seem unreasonable to train new riders to try to avoid a collision in such a situation.

That the first time they have tried it in the wet is on their test just shows the problems with doing intensive courses and not practising in a variety of conditions.

[quote name='Anth' date='Apr 29 2009, 10:28 PM' post='377058']
What IS the avoidance thing anyway?

I hope its ok to post a you tube link? It shows clearly what is expected,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_7EzztxBx0

I have tried this on a not perfect concourse where it was accurately laid out.. Its not as easy as it seems under dry conditions I would be confident but wet? Mmmm I would need some one to be with me just in case... I come off ;- as a learner biker I have to say.. I dont have the confidence to do it in the pouring rain.

That the first time they have tried it in the wet is on their test just shows the problems with doing intensive courses and not practising in a variety of conditions.
[/quote]

I second that and I am going to use the test as my training experience I pass or I dont but its a good place to try it out. LOL.

Have a look at the youtube clips for new test from

http://www.youtube.com/user/MotorbikesUK

Each part of the test is on it.. exceedingly helpfull these clips combined with info of the DSA i.e. the layout of new test, the dimensions etc certainly is usefull for all trainees...

That'll be DP then

Thanks Paula having taken a look at Youtube I dont think it is an unreasonable part of the test what it does seem to do is ensure the rider is able to cope in all conditions and a variety of situations. To expand this thread I have always believed that the car test should also be harder the current standard of drivers on our roads is pretty poor so maybe the new bike test is just a start.

Hah yeah right, political suicide to antagonise the drivers, far better to piss on the minority bikers.

That doesn't seem like "avoiding a hazard" to me- more like training for a good set of twisties

If you knew where a hazard was (like this planned route) then i'd slow down/change my lane position WAY before getting to the actual "hazard". I'm glad I passed when I did- forgetting the rain problem... The vanvan isn't suited to corners at that kinda speed, not with the giant knobblies.

Where are you meant to practice this swerving technique at 31 mph to be confident at the test centre.
I'm doing some training on Sat so will ask if anyone from the school has passed or taken the part 1 test this week. I think later in the year the part 1 is going up to £20 rather than £10 so again more cost if you don't pass first time.

But they cant very well throw a hazard out in front of test candidates for real, then there would be a legal backlash of claims!

Now that would be good!

Like in the car test when they bang the clipboard on the dashboard only it would be...

'Now then Mr Davy I want you to proceed along this 'ere road reaching a speed of exactly 31mph, when I throw this here half brick at you I want you to swerve drastically to avoid it in a controlled manner'

Guess you would either pass or go to hospital...

just like the current one then

Good point - since the schools mostly do not have off road facilities, you can't practice it. but then the powers that be won't care - they will get loads of money from the people who keep failing.

They are already charging £20 where I am I had a word with my instructor apprently it's £20 for part one and £60 for part 2. Im taking part 1 in 2 - 3 weeks time providing my boss gives me a day off to do it. I will definatly post how this particular part of the test went tbh it looks like good fun

[quote name='nutter257' date='Apr 30 2009, 11:18 PM' post='377207']
They are already charging £20 where I am I had a word with my instructor apprently it's £20 for part one and £60 for part 2.

==========================

Here is the link for up to date prices, I just booked module 1 for next week and I paid £10.00 so are you sure your prices are right or are you paying for your attending instructors time?


http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Learn...Ride/DG_4022530

The video doesn't actually look too bad, it's not quite what I expected - but it doesn't actually show the swervy bit!

It does actually but its no comparison when you drive it yourself, basically have a look at the intro map

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_7EzztxBx0

but also at the end of that you go into a controlled stop ... trust me even on JUST A 125cc scooter its not easy. I've been practicing this morning, on a sunny day great but God help me if it rains.

I watched it several times and I don't think it actually shows the rider doing the swervy bit!

I can see what the problem is...


the blue cones that you ahve to serve are very close to the 30mph gate, so it's a quick swerve and then a long swerve to get back to the final blue cones...

what probably happens is the candidate not having the confidence to flick the bike from side to side, goes through the gate at 30mph, starts to swerve, is going too fast, sees the cones getting closer quickly and hits the brakes to slow down... while at an angle doing the swerving.... bike down.

Like to see all the comments from all the experienced bikers on how easy it is to do..
did you manage to flick a bike from side to side 5 days after learning how to ride a bike?

One of the instructors where Silverlady did her training tried the new swerve test as a novice and failed tried again as a seasoned rider and passed its not that easy to do

[quote name='[JP]' date='May 3 2009, 12:08 AM' post='377382']
I can see what the problem is...


Spot on! That is exactly what it is, As I said been practicing and I also found that you must know where to ride before driving away, so it pays to either practice or learn the route by heart and.... practice left and right route, it feels totally different.

If someone passes it after training for 5 days, its one hell of a learning curve.. take my hat of to them.. I put just under 2000 miles onto my scooter since I joined this forum and have to say I still feel like a learner but yes I hope to pass that test next week.. and I am indeed flicking ish my scooter. Its a very small swerve but bigger going into controlled stop, common sense would help but until I pass I am not going to give anyone advic on it.

I remember reading on another forum that an experienced instructor had tried it and found it pretty difficult and wasn't sure he would pass!!!!!

The thing that annoys me the most though is that it does not HAVE to be conducted at that speed, nor does the emergency stop. Also we already had the toughest test in Europe and yet blindly implement it as written without thought of adapting it to suit the infrastructure we already had without a huge waste of money for the new centres and the hassle/cost for people who live miles away from them. Other countries of course are not bothering to implement any of it but their riders can come and ride here on their European licences!

Car drivers of course are getting it easier - they will soon be able to choose their own preferred route for part of their test!

They wouldn't / couldn't do that for bikers though TWISTIES!

Well I went down to my old school yesterday on my way home but DP wasn't there, I spoke to one of the other guys who said "ah piece of pi55" from the expressions on the other lads faces I felt they dissagreed but wouldn't contradict him in frnt of customers.

So I've tried it myself, and yes of course it's do-able.

Yes it will be "a piece of pi55" in good conditions and for an experienced rider / instructor with enough practice

Would I have been able to do it on the day of my test, no problem on my 125 but I'd been riding / practicing almost daily for 8-10 months and would have been practicing this manouver too.
Probably on my DAS bike too, but more from the experience gained on the 125 than anything else.

Would I have been able to do it after 5 - 6 lessons on a schools bike with no riding in between Not a hope, I just wouldn't have been confident enough.

Of course this is based on my opinion of my own riding abilities at the time. It will be different for all.
I'm also not going to preach advice but setting yourself up "correctly" for the bend & swerve helped me a lot.
Taking a bad line into it forced me to "clip" my imaginary cone on one occasion.

We can include it at Squires as a second event to the slalom

I'm glad I learned my way and took the test when I did.

dude- your a mind reader, but where are we gonna get our hands on a speed camera monitoring device?

Everyone who took the part 1 test this week with the school I used passed but they were on 500cc bikes. Also it has been dry here all week so that helped. I've been told it is harder for the 125cc bikes but time will tell.

Isnt that a GOOD thing though?

Do you really think someone with no prior 2 wheeled expeerience is fully capable and skilled enough to legally ride ANY bike they want, after 3-5 days training given that they presumably are not skilled enough to be able to brake and swerve in an emergency type situation?

Well they are not legally able to ride any bike they like are they? Some people are, yes, but it depends on age etc.

The point surely is that there is nowhere for most people to practice this manouvre. Also it does not necessarily prove that they cannot do it safely if they fail it in a test - under test conditions they will be extremely nervous and probably far less capable of doing it than they would be riding along in a calm state of mind on the road. Also if somone has to swerve to avoid something on the road - how often do they then have to immediately swerve the other way to avoid something else? yes it can happen but it is not that likely.

I would not want to go back to the old ride around the block tests at all, but I think a little common sense should have been involved in the planning and implementation of the new tests and also it should be Europe wide not just UK. But then that would mean having civil servants and Mps with common sense which is a contradiction in itself!

I thought that by far the majority of intensive courses (which was what was being talked about) were DAS in which case they can get on a turbo'd busa upon passing if they really want to.



Not sure I buy this, I can think of several local industrial estates which would be deserted enough to practise in, 30, 32 mph whatever, isnt goin to make much difference.



Its a fact of life that to prove you can do things, you have to do them in test conditions, school exams, bike tests whatever. iIt doesnt apply so much on the bike as to the car, but at least on the test its got their sole concentration, rather than thinking about what their gonna have for dinner, or messing with the radio or whatever.

Actually to be confident and accurate and know exactly what you need for the module 1 test you will need to mark out with cones or paint,, a carbon copy of each section..

I am glad I found a practice place that has the left and right test course to the exact measurements, I would not like to go around on an industrial estate to try to practice this. Remember that if the learner feels confident in their skill and bike it will be half the battle. You will fail if you go less than 50 km ph ie 32 miles. So it MATTERS!!!!!!! So NO a local industrial estate is NOT good enough and anyone that thinks so ... ahum cough cough but thats my own personal opinion!

Yes and no, I possibly would have been perfectly capable of doing it but it would have been my lack of confidence that would have stopped me and forced me to do more lessons or do as I did and run a 125 for a year to gain experience.

I ride to the conditions and when wet ride slower not at a 32 MPH speed some europrat decides I must.



Some will and some wont, some people take to it easier than others and a throtle works both ways.

I think you both misunderstood what I meant, surely its better to have a newly passed rider who is generally competent and has the riding ability to perform a manoeuvre at any speed, 30mph, 32mph, even 45mph, rather than someone who has just wrote learned that one little manoeuvre to pass the test?

And, as I stated before, unless the weather is trully horrific, you will go above 32mph in the rain on a dual carriageway so it certainly seems reasonable to expect you to be able to do that manoeuvre in the rain at those speeds.

Personally I'd quite like to see them completely ban intensive courses as a means of training, if the new test makes it more difficult to pass based on intensive training and requires riders to actually ride around on small bikes for a while until their general bike control is up to par, then that seems a positive thing.

Or they'll give up trying to get a bike licence, so it's a win-win situation for the government.

What because they can fine them when they catch them riding round without licences etc? Hmmm yes but not for anyone they hit uninsured.

If the government is trying to get bikes off the road then they are even more stupid than I thought, given that many bikes are more eco friendly than many cars and cause less congestion.

Except its not true for bikes over 600cc, oh yes they dont pollute due to not sitting in traffic but most bikes pollute worse when you discount stationary traffic. Bikers like to give it some welly when they can and hard acceleration means worse polluting, add in to that bikes tend to have higher tuned engines with less care for the environment and most large sportsbikes ar fairly horrific from what I have heard.

Although trying to actually find concrete emissions figures for motorcycles seems to be rather difficult.

i think it looks like fun.

but i reckon you'd have to learn the course by heart to stand a chance. cones can be very confusing for figuring out the route in the heat of the moment.

I did very carefully say many bikes and many cars as I am wel laware that some bikes are more polluting than some cars.

Also since cars do often sit in stationery traffic some of the effects of the over 600 bikes would be negated.

Plus not all bikers "give it some welly" no more than all car drivers do. Though as you say in any case - getting proper emissions stats for bikes is not easy at all.




the trouble is that people who have to avoid something on the road are likely to be taking notice of their surroundings and not concentrating totally on their speed but in the test they not only have concentrate intensely on their speed to ensure it is above the required level, but the use of cones, means that they have to look down, when all theirtraining is teaching them that it is safer to look up!

I am not in the least against proper tests and advanced training etc, but I think more careful thought would have produced something effective but less dangerous!

Oh no they wont, they will buy a Piaggio MP3 (125, 250, 400 cc, 650 cc) or a Gilero Fuoco (500 or more cc) which is converted with some additional spacers and turned to an approved trike.. you can drive it with a car licence... I heard in the grapevine that the manufacturer is actually considering exporting them already converted.. Isnot that great it looks like a bike(well sort of) , but it rides like a bike with better braking power, and the driver on it has zero motorcycling experience. Now that sounds really inspiring.

True, but AFAIK if you discount scoot's (maybe even if you dont, dont have time to search for figures at the moment) then large engined sportsbikes are by far the largest majority of riders in this country.

Your "average rider" is a sportsbike rider who rides for leisure so obviously is what legislation is going to be aimed at. Unlike cars where pleasure riding is by far the minority and the "average driver" drives a workhorse type car purely for transport. Its slightly different in europe from what i remember where its mainly tourers and cruisers have the majority in the states.

Most of our mates must be the exceptions then - not all that many of them have sports bikes!