Im not knocking anyone
In fact if anyone wants to take up riding a bike at any age i will back them all the way in any way i can.
i think that we need new bikers coz if there are no more new bikers the lifestyle will die with us.
but a question for those of you new to bikes
do you see your self as
a biker
a motorcyclist
or someone that rides because it is a cheap form of transport
someone that rides because your mates do
no need to say on here
but think about this really think about it
because only the biker will still be riding 5/10 years down the road the rest will have gotten cold wet too many times for thier liking & brought a car.
I would hazard a guess that for every 100 people taking up riding a bike today 95 will not be on a bike in say 5 years time.
That does not leave many of us still riding in say 20 years time
what is the average age of members in here late 30's early 40's
that would make most of us fast approaching 60 or over in 20 yrs due to what ever reason a lot of us will not still be riding when we are in our 60's.
We are a dying breed.
now back to the biker bit
how do you define the difference between a biker & someone that rides a bike
answers again please
this is not to stir up a hornets nest or wind anyone up i am interested
because
we come from different parts of the country
have between us covered many proffessions
had very different upbringings
& our ages must from the youngest member to the oldest ( whoever they may be )cover a 35/40 year span
our only real connection to each other on here is our love of bikes.
i will leave this for a bit before i give my opinion
So Go For it some good answers coming up here me thinks
Full Version: we have a few new to bikes people here
Bin doing the car thing for years. At 17 asked parents for bike test for birthday and got bought driving lessons instead!! Had a moped for 16th Birthday from parents and was then told that bikes were too dangerous and that I was to have a car!! (ok so I had slid the moped down the road and trashed it a bit!)
The wanting to be on two wheels bit never really went away and was on the list of things to do before I was 30! Got married, had child, got divorced and it didnt happen due to other things getting in the way (yes ok, nothing should have stopped me). Eventually, despite maternal dissapproval, ex boyfriends etc telling me I wouldnt be capable I booked in for direct access having not been near a bike for 15 years. I was CRAP. All merit to the instructors, they didnt think I could do it either, after destroying both brake and clutch levers on the centres bike they fitted lever guards and continued to try to get me through! It took me FOUR DAYS to get my CBT through sheer perseverence (didnt come easy to me) but I did it in the end and got a 125 in July 2001.
I was still crap and had no confidence, kept stalling, had no clutch control and was generally not getting on well but had determination. In Feb 2003 I got my A2 and went out and got a 250 Eliminator which I love and now get on much better. Took the poor little thing from St Malo to Faro last summer (found it bloody hard going as was riding with three blokes with big bikes and years of experience and nearly melted the bike trying to keep up) but I did it, and it gave me a huge sense of achievement.
I now own a 550 chop as well but it is not currently goin (although I was using it for a bit) and cant ride it legally at the mo anyway. I also bought a trike which I am trying to get on the road.
I consider myself a biker and not a motorcyclist. Being a biker is a lifestyle not a vehicle you use. Its an attitude to life.
Yes I still use a car too, sometimes I have to, sometimes I want to but I ride for ME not because anybody wanted me to or because I had friends with bikes, because when I learned I didnt have anyone to ride with but myself.
The wanting to be on two wheels bit never really went away and was on the list of things to do before I was 30! Got married, had child, got divorced and it didnt happen due to other things getting in the way (yes ok, nothing should have stopped me). Eventually, despite maternal dissapproval, ex boyfriends etc telling me I wouldnt be capable I booked in for direct access having not been near a bike for 15 years. I was CRAP. All merit to the instructors, they didnt think I could do it either, after destroying both brake and clutch levers on the centres bike they fitted lever guards and continued to try to get me through! It took me FOUR DAYS to get my CBT through sheer perseverence (didnt come easy to me) but I did it in the end and got a 125 in July 2001.
I was still crap and had no confidence, kept stalling, had no clutch control and was generally not getting on well but had determination. In Feb 2003 I got my A2 and went out and got a 250 Eliminator which I love and now get on much better. Took the poor little thing from St Malo to Faro last summer (found it bloody hard going as was riding with three blokes with big bikes and years of experience and nearly melted the bike trying to keep up) but I did it, and it gave me a huge sense of achievement.
I now own a 550 chop as well but it is not currently goin (although I was using it for a bit) and cant ride it legally at the mo anyway. I also bought a trike which I am trying to get on the road.
I consider myself a biker and not a motorcyclist. Being a biker is a lifestyle not a vehicle you use. Its an attitude to life.
Yes I still use a car too, sometimes I have to, sometimes I want to but I ride for ME not because anybody wanted me to or because I had friends with bikes, because when I learned I didnt have anyone to ride with but myself.
floss it almost sounds like you are pissed at me for having the cheek to ask those questions.
I am just biker ok a biker with many years & many miles gone by.
I did not put the post up to piss people off just to ask a few questions that should raise some interesting answers.
a bit late for you i spose but congrats & very well done on sticking to it & passing your test.
You knew what you wanted & you went for it even tho i dont know you i feel proud for you if you know what i mean.
& after all that you rode to faro too
you are a star.
& i would be proud & happy to call you a friend.
deepest respect to you floss.
If my post offended you then i apoligise from the bottom of my sick twisted black heart or if you prefer my walking stick lol.
I drive a transit van as well as ride a bike & at the present time i am building ( well not me but my m8's ) Another trike this will be my 9th trike.
the reason for the van not that i feel I need a reason or should have to explain but i will
I am a rock DJ & play all over the place at bike rallies & use the van to move my kit about
I also have 6 kids living at home so need the van for them too ( it's a minibus )
& I am disabled ( bike smash in jan 2000 ).
but once the trike is sorted i will stop using the van & let the wife either have it or sell it & buy her another MPV
I am just biker ok a biker with many years & many miles gone by.
I did not put the post up to piss people off just to ask a few questions that should raise some interesting answers.
a bit late for you i spose but congrats & very well done on sticking to it & passing your test.
You knew what you wanted & you went for it even tho i dont know you i feel proud for you if you know what i mean.
& after all that you rode to faro too
you are a star.
& i would be proud & happy to call you a friend.deepest respect to you floss.
If my post offended you then i apoligise from the bottom of my sick twisted black heart or if you prefer my walking stick lol.
I drive a transit van as well as ride a bike & at the present time i am building ( well not me but my m8's ) Another trike this will be my 9th trike.
the reason for the van not that i feel I need a reason or should have to explain but i will
I am a rock DJ & play all over the place at bike rallies & use the van to move my kit about
I also have 6 kids living at home so need the van for them too ( it's a minibus )
& I am disabled ( bike smash in jan 2000 ).
but once the trike is sorted i will stop using the van & let the wife either have it or sell it & buy her another MPV
on the same lines a few words of wisdom from someone that has been around a lil while
or words of biker wisdom lol
Midnight Bugs taste Best
Saddlebags can never hold everything you want, but they CAN hold everything you need.
NEVER argue with a woman holding anything bigger than a tooth pick unless you want to wear it or have it removed by a doctor
Never try to race an old Geezer, he may have one more gear than you.
Home is where your bike sits still long enough to leave a few drops of oil on the ground.
You'll get farther down the road if you learn to use more than two fingers on the front brake.
Routine maintenance should never be neglected
It takes more love to share the saddle than it does to share the bed.
The only good view of a thunderstorm is in your rearview mirror.
Never be afraid to slow down.
Only Bikers understand why dogs love to stick their heads out car windows.
Bikes don't leak oil; they mark their territory.
Never ask a biker for directions if you're in a hurry to get there.
Don't ride so late into the night that you sleep through the sunrise.
Bacon and eggs are as important as petrol after a saturday night on the piss.
Sometimes it takes a whole tankful of petrol before you can think straight.
If you want to get a job, you may have to compromise your principals. You may even have to shave.
Riding faster than everyone else only guarantees you'll ride alone.
Never mistake Horsepower for staying power.
A good rider has balance, judgment, and good timing. So does a good lover.
Never do less then Forty miles before breakfast.
If you don't ride in the rain-you don't ride.
A bike on the road is worth 20 in the shop.
Respect the person who has seen the Dark side of motorcycling and lived.
Young riders pick a destination and go... Old riders pick a direction and go.
Sometimes the fastest way to get there is to stop for the night.
Always back your bike into the curb-and sit where you can see it.
Work to ride-Ride to work.
Whatever it is, it's better in the wind.
When you look down the road, it seems to never end-but you better believe it does.
A biker can smell a party 2500 miles away.
Winter is Natures way of telling you to slow down.
Keep your bikes in good repair: riding boots are NOT comfortable for walking.
People are like bikes each is customized a bit differently. & some are just sh!t
If the bike ain't braking properly, you don't start by rebuilding the engine.
Remember to pay as much attention to your partner as you do your carburetor.
Sometimes the best communication happens when you're on separate bikes.
Well-trained reflexes are quicker than luck.
The twisties- not the superslabs- separate the bikers from the wannabes.
When you're riding lead--don't feck off at 100+ mph
.
If you really want to know what's going on, watch what's happening at least 5 cars ahead.
Don't make a reputation you'll have to live down or run away from later.
If the person in the next lane at the stoplight rolls up the window and locks the door, support their view of life by snarling at them.
A friend is someone who'll get out of bed at 2am to drive his Van to the middle of nowhere to get you when you're broken down.
If she changes her oil more than she changes her mind--follow her.
If you want to get somewhere before sundown, you can't stop at every pub.
There's something ugly about a bike on a trailer.
Don't lead the pack if you don't know where you're goin'.
Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't.
Beware the biker who says the bike never breaks down.
Owning 2 bikes is useful because at least one can be raided for parts at any given time.
You'll know she loves you if she offers to let you ride her bike. Don't do it and she'll love you even more.
Don't argue with an 18-wheeler.
Never be ashamed to unlearn an old habit.
Maintenance is as much art as it is science.
A good long ride can clear your mind, restore your faith, and use up a lot of petrol but its worth every drop.
If the countryside seems boring, stop, get off your bike, and go sit in the ditch long enough to appreciate what was here before the road came.
If you can't get it goin' with WD40, gaffa tape & swearing-it's serious.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow-there won't be.
Bikes parked out front mean something good going on inside.
If you want to complain about the pace being set by the road captain, you better be prepared to (a) lead the group yourself (B) take a slap
Gray-haired bikers don't get that way from pure luck.
There are drunken bikers. There are old bikers. There are NO old, drunken bikers.
Thin leather looks good in the pub, but it won't save you from "road rash" if you go down.
The best modifications cannot be seen from the outside.
Always replace the cheapest parts first.
You can forget what you do for a living when your knees are in the breeze.
No matter what you ride, it's all the same wind.
It takes all the pistons and cylinders to make a bike run. One is not more important than the other.
Patience is the ability to keep your motor idling when you feel like stripping your gears.
never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
treat everyone with the same respect you want to be treated with
It takes a better person to calm a situation than start throwing punches
always let your partners know you love them before you leave them for the day/night as the white van man could be waiting for YOU
urban streets are not the places for speed
Above all respect your bike know it's limits & yours if not YOUR DEAD
all these are common sense & with the exception of a couple i have added where my grandads bible
or words of biker wisdom lol
Midnight Bugs taste Best
Saddlebags can never hold everything you want, but they CAN hold everything you need.
NEVER argue with a woman holding anything bigger than a tooth pick unless you want to wear it or have it removed by a doctor
Never try to race an old Geezer, he may have one more gear than you.
Home is where your bike sits still long enough to leave a few drops of oil on the ground.
You'll get farther down the road if you learn to use more than two fingers on the front brake.
Routine maintenance should never be neglected
It takes more love to share the saddle than it does to share the bed.
The only good view of a thunderstorm is in your rearview mirror.
Never be afraid to slow down.
Only Bikers understand why dogs love to stick their heads out car windows.
Bikes don't leak oil; they mark their territory.
Never ask a biker for directions if you're in a hurry to get there.
Don't ride so late into the night that you sleep through the sunrise.
Bacon and eggs are as important as petrol after a saturday night on the piss.
Sometimes it takes a whole tankful of petrol before you can think straight.
If you want to get a job, you may have to compromise your principals. You may even have to shave.
Riding faster than everyone else only guarantees you'll ride alone.
Never mistake Horsepower for staying power.
A good rider has balance, judgment, and good timing. So does a good lover.
Never do less then Forty miles before breakfast.
If you don't ride in the rain-you don't ride.
A bike on the road is worth 20 in the shop.
Respect the person who has seen the Dark side of motorcycling and lived.
Young riders pick a destination and go... Old riders pick a direction and go.
Sometimes the fastest way to get there is to stop for the night.
Always back your bike into the curb-and sit where you can see it.
Work to ride-Ride to work.
Whatever it is, it's better in the wind.
When you look down the road, it seems to never end-but you better believe it does.
A biker can smell a party 2500 miles away.
Winter is Natures way of telling you to slow down.
Keep your bikes in good repair: riding boots are NOT comfortable for walking.
People are like bikes each is customized a bit differently. & some are just sh!t
If the bike ain't braking properly, you don't start by rebuilding the engine.
Remember to pay as much attention to your partner as you do your carburetor.
Sometimes the best communication happens when you're on separate bikes.
Well-trained reflexes are quicker than luck.
The twisties- not the superslabs- separate the bikers from the wannabes.
When you're riding lead--don't feck off at 100+ mph
.
If you really want to know what's going on, watch what's happening at least 5 cars ahead.
Don't make a reputation you'll have to live down or run away from later.
If the person in the next lane at the stoplight rolls up the window and locks the door, support their view of life by snarling at them.
A friend is someone who'll get out of bed at 2am to drive his Van to the middle of nowhere to get you when you're broken down.
If she changes her oil more than she changes her mind--follow her.
If you want to get somewhere before sundown, you can't stop at every pub.
There's something ugly about a bike on a trailer.
Don't lead the pack if you don't know where you're goin'.
Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't.
Beware the biker who says the bike never breaks down.
Owning 2 bikes is useful because at least one can be raided for parts at any given time.
You'll know she loves you if she offers to let you ride her bike. Don't do it and she'll love you even more.
Don't argue with an 18-wheeler.
Never be ashamed to unlearn an old habit.
Maintenance is as much art as it is science.
A good long ride can clear your mind, restore your faith, and use up a lot of petrol but its worth every drop.
If the countryside seems boring, stop, get off your bike, and go sit in the ditch long enough to appreciate what was here before the road came.
If you can't get it goin' with WD40, gaffa tape & swearing-it's serious.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow-there won't be.
Bikes parked out front mean something good going on inside.
If you want to complain about the pace being set by the road captain, you better be prepared to (a) lead the group yourself (B) take a slap
Gray-haired bikers don't get that way from pure luck.
There are drunken bikers. There are old bikers. There are NO old, drunken bikers.
Thin leather looks good in the pub, but it won't save you from "road rash" if you go down.
The best modifications cannot be seen from the outside.
Always replace the cheapest parts first.
You can forget what you do for a living when your knees are in the breeze.
No matter what you ride, it's all the same wind.
It takes all the pistons and cylinders to make a bike run. One is not more important than the other.
Patience is the ability to keep your motor idling when you feel like stripping your gears.
never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
treat everyone with the same respect you want to be treated with
It takes a better person to calm a situation than start throwing punches
always let your partners know you love them before you leave them for the day/night as the white van man could be waiting for YOU
urban streets are not the places for speed
Above all respect your bike know it's limits & yours if not YOUR DEAD
all these are common sense & with the exception of a couple i have added where my grandads bible
Fantastic and true Womble
For me learning to ride a bike was a spur of the moment decision. I'd been around bikes since i was 13 yrs old and Ace had pretty much always had a bike but i had never considered riding myself, i loved being a pillion. After having our 2nd son i took driving lessons i hated it i honestly couldn't stand being in the driving seat. After 3rd son i had more driving lessons coz i felt guilty as Ace did all the driving, i still hated it. So i cancelled my test i thought "nope i ain't doing it".
Aproximately 4 years ago i started at uni 12 ish miles away from home, 2 and half hrs on the bus each way, sod that , so i learnt to ride, i did my CBT i guess i was a motorcyclist at that point in time as when i wasn't at uni i didn't ride much. My first sign of attachment was when my bike was nicked, i was gutted devastated. I talked to loads of bikers who had similar experiences and decided it was a good group to hang with. So i joined The Sisterhood with Flossie, after a while i did my A2 test and past 1st time, i loved it, now my A2 is up so a bigger bike is under consideration. It's weird now, we meet every week and these guys are like family to me. As for riding i get really bad withdrawls when i can't ride ie, after the accident in the summer, i couldn't wait to get back on the bike, my worst fear was that i would loose my bottle and never ride again, that fear was stronger than coming off again. I can't imagine not riding, and have planned the next 10-20 years around it, where i'm gona tour what kinda bike i'll take etc, even if it doesn't happen i can't see me willingly giving up my bikes.
So it is with that in mind that i think i'm a biker, oh yeah and the social scene stuff i do the rallies parties etc
For me learning to ride a bike was a spur of the moment decision. I'd been around bikes since i was 13 yrs old and Ace had pretty much always had a bike but i had never considered riding myself, i loved being a pillion. After having our 2nd son i took driving lessons i hated it i honestly couldn't stand being in the driving seat. After 3rd son i had more driving lessons coz i felt guilty as Ace did all the driving, i still hated it. So i cancelled my test i thought "nope i ain't doing it".
Aproximately 4 years ago i started at uni 12 ish miles away from home, 2 and half hrs on the bus each way, sod that , so i learnt to ride, i did my CBT i guess i was a motorcyclist at that point in time as when i wasn't at uni i didn't ride much. My first sign of attachment was when my bike was nicked, i was gutted devastated. I talked to loads of bikers who had similar experiences and decided it was a good group to hang with. So i joined The Sisterhood with Flossie, after a while i did my A2 test and past 1st time, i loved it, now my A2 is up so a bigger bike is under consideration. It's weird now, we meet every week and these guys are like family to me. As for riding i get really bad withdrawls when i can't ride ie, after the accident in the summer, i couldn't wait to get back on the bike, my worst fear was that i would loose my bottle and never ride again, that fear was stronger than coming off again. I can't imagine not riding, and have planned the next 10-20 years around it, where i'm gona tour what kinda bike i'll take etc, even if it doesn't happen i can't see me willingly giving up my bikes.
So it is with that in mind that i think i'm a biker, oh yeah and the social scene stuff i do the rallies parties etc
erm, a biker I spose, since I have always been pillion and tho it has taken me longer to actually get my stuff together and take lessons (Much like Flossies reasons, marriage, children etc). I can't help it, I dislike driving intensely but the sound of a bike does something to me (and strangely enuff I find fat rear tyres very sexy, am I weird? don't answer that lmao) and I'm gagging to get back out there, mainly because (same as Ooga) I'm scared I will have lost the confidence I had, but I need to get back on as quick as I can to find out. 
well i am a 3rd generation biker
grandAD
Dad
several uncles
Me
rode my forst bike at 8
got my first bike
14 was riding on the rode at 16 naughty i know but i had a beard at 14 so looked much older
have been invovled with clubs & such all my life.
been a rep for MAG
nabd
& now have been a rep for the celtic warriors for the last 10 yrs
i really dont know any other sort of life
being a biker is inside you
you are a biker or your not there is no if's or buts or maybes or wannabes.
it is as much a part of you as breathing
it is a way of life
a way of thinking
i was off the road for almost 4 yrs
& being a rep in a bike club & seeing all me mates & bro's riding about ripped me up inside.
i never thought i would get back on a bike
i even got it in my head that i would never ride 2 wheels again
this is why i started looking at building another trike.
but I am back on 2 wheels I can't ride far but i do ride
the trike should be finished around june
& then i am going to pose big time lol
my wife saw what not being on a bike was doing to me & so went behind my back & conspired with a few of my club members & brought me a bike.
i am a very outgoing & loud man ( being a DJ you cant be shy & withdrawn ) they gave me the bike on my birthday & it took me half n hour before i could say anything & even then all i kept saying was it's a bike you brought me a fecking bike lol i was in shock.
my wife sandy when i met her had never been a biker or invovled with bikers
now she is waiting to take her bike test she has a 550 sitting in the garden waiting for her.
all i ever say is
respect everyone & you will get it back
be loud be proud be you
grandAD
Dad
several uncles
Me
rode my forst bike at 8
got my first bike
14 was riding on the rode at 16 naughty i know but i had a beard at 14 so looked much older
have been invovled with clubs & such all my life.
been a rep for MAG
nabd
& now have been a rep for the celtic warriors for the last 10 yrs
i really dont know any other sort of life
being a biker is inside you
you are a biker or your not there is no if's or buts or maybes or wannabes.
it is as much a part of you as breathing
it is a way of life
a way of thinking
i was off the road for almost 4 yrs
& being a rep in a bike club & seeing all me mates & bro's riding about ripped me up inside.
i never thought i would get back on a bike
i even got it in my head that i would never ride 2 wheels again
this is why i started looking at building another trike.
but I am back on 2 wheels I can't ride far but i do ride
the trike should be finished around june
& then i am going to pose big time lol
my wife saw what not being on a bike was doing to me & so went behind my back & conspired with a few of my club members & brought me a bike.
i am a very outgoing & loud man ( being a DJ you cant be shy & withdrawn ) they gave me the bike on my birthday & it took me half n hour before i could say anything & even then all i kept saying was it's a bike you brought me a fecking bike lol i was in shock.
my wife sandy when i met her had never been a biker or invovled with bikers
now she is waiting to take her bike test she has a 550 sitting in the garden waiting for her.
all i ever say is
respect everyone & you will get it back
be loud be proud be you
I do 15,000+ miles a year on my bike and have done for ever. Thats in addition to 100,000+ miles flying a year. I suppose I never stop moving (Wife doesn't agree). Does this mean I am slowind down time and will live longer ??? 
All you got to do nick is find one of the holes in time/space continium that they always seem to find in films drop through & you could be your own gt gt grandfather
Never had any interest in bikes till 2002 when I had my first taster of being a pillion. From that day I was hooked, but just as a pillion. When I realised that I was fed up asking to be taken out and knew that the relationship was gonna come to an end I thought, oh no, what am I gonna do. So I booked a CBT and loved it and I was very pleased with myself. The instructor said " so, you going to do a DAS then?", I went home and booked it. Unfortunately I had heard some negative things about the training school and with help and advice from a few people mainly T.C, managed to cancel and get a full refund. I also thought that a 2 day DAS not including a CBT was probably a bit on the intense side and knew I would fail, so I nearly didn't take it any further, but I couldn't stop thinking about it so I asked around and found a very lovely instructor in my home town who took me for weekly lessons and who built up my confidence so that I wasn't nervous prior to a lesson, just darn well excited. Most of you will remember the day I passed. Yes, I still grin to myself. I still cannot believe I passed and I am well chuffed with myself.
Now, this is where I realise I have no idea what to consider myself, as I do not have a bike and probably won't for quite some time.
However, what I do know is this.
I love bikes, I want to be on one asap, I envy everyone else as they pass on theirs, I always seem to bring it up in conversations with anyone who will listen, I have bike models, pictures, picture frames etc round my house, I love getting into my leathers and when I am in my car, although I am warm and cosy and have my music on, I still want to be on a bike. Having had lessons on some pretty cold days and a test on a freezing cold day, and had some lessons in rain, I know that cold wouldn't stop me, but i'm not sure about rain for the simple fact of not being confident enough, not through fear of getting wet. So i'd like to think I am a biker, or will be, but we'll just have to see.
Now, this is where I realise I have no idea what to consider myself, as I do not have a bike and probably won't for quite some time.
However, what I do know is this.
I love bikes, I want to be on one asap, I envy everyone else as they pass on theirs, I always seem to bring it up in conversations with anyone who will listen, I have bike models, pictures, picture frames etc round my house, I love getting into my leathers and when I am in my car, although I am warm and cosy and have my music on, I still want to be on a bike. Having had lessons on some pretty cold days and a test on a freezing cold day, and had some lessons in rain, I know that cold wouldn't stop me, but i'm not sure about rain for the simple fact of not being confident enough, not through fear of getting wet. So i'd like to think I am a biker, or will be, but we'll just have to see.
That's a couple of very hard questions.
There are probably even more spilts within the biking culture. There's those who love the speed and want the fastest bike possible and want to hammer everywhere on it. I think they are what is termed as petrolheads. Fast bikes, fast cars, fast wimmin..
Then there's those who don't mind the speed and just like the bikes. They're quite happy on smaller machines and don't have to blat everywhere.
All of the different groups merge at some point and also have their extreme elements. So it's quite hard to say exactly where someone fits in because they could be from a number of different groups.
I would say that a biker is more into the whole culture and wants get involved and meet similar folk, whereas the motorcyclist is mad keen on bikes but isn't interested in anything outwith that.
All my mates had given up on their bikes and the runs we used to do, until I teamed up with Norrie a few years ago and it gave me some company for a run. Even if you just feel like sitting on your hairy erse and watching Eastenders, if somebody rings up and says do you fancy going some place for a run, you'll probably go.
The only reason I have my bike is because I'd really miss it if it had to go. It's not the newest bike and I get a load of problems, which usually have to wait a while to get fixed but the days that I get out on it make up for the hassle of keeping it running. Although, I do feel my spirits get dampened a little because I have had problems.
I still couldn't bear to sell it though.
I'll need to have a good think about this, then get back to you with a decent answer.
There are probably even more spilts within the biking culture. There's those who love the speed and want the fastest bike possible and want to hammer everywhere on it. I think they are what is termed as petrolheads. Fast bikes, fast cars, fast wimmin..
Then there's those who don't mind the speed and just like the bikes. They're quite happy on smaller machines and don't have to blat everywhere.
All of the different groups merge at some point and also have their extreme elements. So it's quite hard to say exactly where someone fits in because they could be from a number of different groups.
I would say that a biker is more into the whole culture and wants get involved and meet similar folk, whereas the motorcyclist is mad keen on bikes but isn't interested in anything outwith that.
All my mates had given up on their bikes and the runs we used to do, until I teamed up with Norrie a few years ago and it gave me some company for a run. Even if you just feel like sitting on your hairy erse and watching Eastenders, if somebody rings up and says do you fancy going some place for a run, you'll probably go.
The only reason I have my bike is because I'd really miss it if it had to go. It's not the newest bike and I get a load of problems, which usually have to wait a while to get fixed but the days that I get out on it make up for the hassle of keeping it running. Although, I do feel my spirits get dampened a little because I have had problems.
I still couldn't bear to sell it though.
I'll need to have a good think about this, then get back to you with a decent answer.
womble.
I see myself as a biker. i love bikes. I always have. there have only been two times in my life when i havent had bikes or at least A bike.
One was obviously when i had my big accident ( it wasnt big by any stretch of the imagination but it had a big effect if you see what i mean). the other was two years when my bitch ex wife said i coouldnt have one and to my shame i went along with her. But she aint around now is she? the bikes are!!
I lov to ride my bike, to me thats the key - i will make any excuse to ride and dont care if it rains or gets windy - i just see these conditions as a chance to improve my riding by learning about braking and grip and easing on the throttle etc. I wear decent gear so dont get cold or wet generally and feel all biking hard for doing it.
One of the things that makes me a biker i think is related to me losing my leg - by this im not asking for respect or bigging up or anything. What i mean is that it took no bravery for me to get back on a bike - this is because i was never scared of riding even after the nastiness of what happend to me. If i was never scared then how could i be brave? I never had anything to overcome.
What really hurt me was when i was in hospital and thought i couold never ride a bike again. This thought filled me with depression and dread. when i eventually rode a bike again it meant more than learning to walk or any other aspect of living with a false leg ( it aint easy for sure) but it felt to me like nothing mattered anymore.
When i ride a bike any disabillity i may or may not have is of no consequence when im riding my bike ( whichever model it may be that month!) im just the same as any other rider.
biking messed me up but for what ive had out of it i still think i got the better deal!
it seems strange to say it but losing my leg is a small price to pay for the biking life ive had and plan to go on having!
i dunno, i reckon im a biker in that i love bikes and i would stop for anybody anytime if they looked like they needed a hand. I love to go fast and yet i get pleasure from being complimented on a uturn or whatever. I bore bea rigid about bikes get the right hump with people who ride and think their bike makes them what they are - an R1 and an expensive suit just means you got more money than some or yoour credit history is better! dont get me wrong, owning flash bikes and having top gear does not NOT make you a biker - its all in the attitude. But when i fell off my little 125 scoot at tesco and two blokes of the above persuasion just stood there laughing as my false leg lay jammed under the footboard until some old geezer came to help me before regailing me of when he had a bike during the war - well, in my book that made him the real biker .
Respect for the new sig too! Sums it all up!
I see myself as a biker. i love bikes. I always have. there have only been two times in my life when i havent had bikes or at least A bike.
One was obviously when i had my big accident ( it wasnt big by any stretch of the imagination but it had a big effect if you see what i mean). the other was two years when my bitch ex wife said i coouldnt have one and to my shame i went along with her. But she aint around now is she? the bikes are!!
I lov to ride my bike, to me thats the key - i will make any excuse to ride and dont care if it rains or gets windy - i just see these conditions as a chance to improve my riding by learning about braking and grip and easing on the throttle etc. I wear decent gear so dont get cold or wet generally and feel all biking hard for doing it.
One of the things that makes me a biker i think is related to me losing my leg - by this im not asking for respect or bigging up or anything. What i mean is that it took no bravery for me to get back on a bike - this is because i was never scared of riding even after the nastiness of what happend to me. If i was never scared then how could i be brave? I never had anything to overcome.
What really hurt me was when i was in hospital and thought i couold never ride a bike again. This thought filled me with depression and dread. when i eventually rode a bike again it meant more than learning to walk or any other aspect of living with a false leg ( it aint easy for sure) but it felt to me like nothing mattered anymore.
When i ride a bike any disabillity i may or may not have is of no consequence when im riding my bike ( whichever model it may be that month!) im just the same as any other rider.
biking messed me up but for what ive had out of it i still think i got the better deal!
it seems strange to say it but losing my leg is a small price to pay for the biking life ive had and plan to go on having!
i dunno, i reckon im a biker in that i love bikes and i would stop for anybody anytime if they looked like they needed a hand. I love to go fast and yet i get pleasure from being complimented on a uturn or whatever. I bore bea rigid about bikes get the right hump with people who ride and think their bike makes them what they are - an R1 and an expensive suit just means you got more money than some or yoour credit history is better! dont get me wrong, owning flash bikes and having top gear does not NOT make you a biker - its all in the attitude. But when i fell off my little 125 scoot at tesco and two blokes of the above persuasion just stood there laughing as my false leg lay jammed under the footboard until some old geezer came to help me before regailing me of when he had a bike during the war - well, in my book that made him the real biker .
Respect for the new sig too! Sums it all up!
It would appear that i have got a few off you thinking that is a good.
what zombie said rings very true If someone has the latest race rep bike top off the range kit & lid & all the bits money can buy this does NOT make them a biker it makes them a RUB
Rich
Urban
Biker
but then again if that person be they man or woman feels the same as i do about my bikes & life style then yes they could well be a real biker just a lucky rich biker.
I dont think there is any one thing that can define what a biker is or what makes you me or anyone a biker.
it could well be something different for us all
for those of you that read my article about bike clubs look at the difference between the full 100% MC biker & the bloke that goes down to his local to have a jar & a little ride out with his mates.
at the end of the day they both love the bikes & all that goes with riding them, the difference is how strongly they feel about the whole biker life style
It is all a matter of perspective ( did i spell that right ? )
i have met many many people over the years that i have been riding & rallying
most of them i would call a mate
Any of them i would go out of my way to help
a few i would even call a bro ( to me this is a compliment not used as easlly & as flippantly ( ?) as the yanks do )
Zombie i know you was not looking for praise when you was talking about losing your leg & getting back in the saddle & we all know that is was not a matter of FEAR wether you got back on a bike again or not.
Me & you have had a chat about this & you know how i admire you for sticking it out & shrugging it off like you lost a toe nail not a leg.
& as i said then i came with in a gnats cock of losing mine & i admit ( & i think you would too ) that for a while the idea of losing a limb scared me sh!tless.
But even before i knew you i already knew many bikers thru my work with NABD that are a lot worse off than you & me disabilty wise.
I think it is not a matter of fear
or balls or not wanting to look a loser or whatever
you ( zombie ) myself & many other disabled bikers have got back on the bikes for one reason only
the bikes & the way of life is a part of us & without it we would not feel complete
we are all what we are but if you take away a bike & the life style from a biker & denigh him/her that which is basicaily all they are then u might as well take out thier brain
because with out the brain they can no longer function
without the biker lifestyle they can no longer function as a complete person
The bike on the other hand
well we all been with out our bikes from time to time but knowing that it is only a temp arrangment & knowing we will get back out in the wind keeps us going.
dave you have already said all that is to be said mate " i could never sell my bike " why because it is a part of you a part of what & who you are & what you feel is a very big & most important part of your life
as i have already said ( sh!t i ought to put this in my signature )
It is a Biker thing mister if i have to explain YOU would NEVER understand
what zombie said rings very true If someone has the latest race rep bike top off the range kit & lid & all the bits money can buy this does NOT make them a biker it makes them a RUB
Rich
Urban
Biker
but then again if that person be they man or woman feels the same as i do about my bikes & life style then yes they could well be a real biker just a lucky rich biker.
I dont think there is any one thing that can define what a biker is or what makes you me or anyone a biker.
it could well be something different for us all
for those of you that read my article about bike clubs look at the difference between the full 100% MC biker & the bloke that goes down to his local to have a jar & a little ride out with his mates.
at the end of the day they both love the bikes & all that goes with riding them, the difference is how strongly they feel about the whole biker life style
It is all a matter of perspective ( did i spell that right ? )
i have met many many people over the years that i have been riding & rallying
most of them i would call a mate
Any of them i would go out of my way to help
a few i would even call a bro ( to me this is a compliment not used as easlly & as flippantly ( ?) as the yanks do )
Zombie i know you was not looking for praise when you was talking about losing your leg & getting back in the saddle & we all know that is was not a matter of FEAR wether you got back on a bike again or not.
Me & you have had a chat about this & you know how i admire you for sticking it out & shrugging it off like you lost a toe nail not a leg.
& as i said then i came with in a gnats cock of losing mine & i admit ( & i think you would too ) that for a while the idea of losing a limb scared me sh!tless.
But even before i knew you i already knew many bikers thru my work with NABD that are a lot worse off than you & me disabilty wise.
I think it is not a matter of fear
or balls or not wanting to look a loser or whatever
you ( zombie ) myself & many other disabled bikers have got back on the bikes for one reason only
the bikes & the way of life is a part of us & without it we would not feel complete
we are all what we are but if you take away a bike & the life style from a biker & denigh him/her that which is basicaily all they are then u might as well take out thier brain
because with out the brain they can no longer function
without the biker lifestyle they can no longer function as a complete person
The bike on the other hand
well we all been with out our bikes from time to time but knowing that it is only a temp arrangment & knowing we will get back out in the wind keeps us going.
dave you have already said all that is to be said mate " i could never sell my bike " why because it is a part of you a part of what & who you are & what you feel is a very big & most important part of your life
as i have already said ( sh!t i ought to put this in my signature )
It is a Biker thing mister if i have to explain YOU would NEVER understand
I'm Not....
1: A Motorcylist, rides all year round, has all the latest gear (usualy fabric/gortex/heated bar muffs/and a radio) and often has a matching wife who joins him on sundays, not known to frequent the biker scene and never does the biker nod. Never does his own maintance and always updates after the three years is up.
2: A Power ranger, colour coordinated leathers, knee sliders (worn boastfuly) and wearing a ducati cap when the helmet is off (or helmet rested on top of head.... that feckin cracks me up), leathers undone with a hairy chest all compareing the smoth edge on their rear tyres while sharon and tracy try to get their legs to straighten and smile blankly. Oh and think i am a Hells Angel...!
3: A Charlie upright, Rides when the weather is nice and usualy on a sunday, or to and from work in the summer then goes down the local in thier Mondeo.
4: A Comuter. usualy rides a CB250 or a SuperDream depending on pay scale, but only to and from work/train station and more often than not in a suit with a light jacket,loafas, cheep gloves and helmet left in top box.
I say all this tounge in cheek however. There realy is no set guide, as has been stated aready, the diversity and individual veiws on the bikeing scene differ so much. Not to mention the popularity of bike now compared the years gone by, it is no longer seen as rebelious as it was, you get the most unlikley charictures riding bikes now days.
But, when some one says to me "biker" i do have a preset image of some one in leather jeans leather jacket covered in patches, army boots and looking like they have just done a weekend in a field with cheep beer.
So what am i, i see my self as a biker, i wear leather jeans, a cheep unknown brand leather jacket with a waist coat over it with a patch from every rally i have been to and of corse our club patch. I regulary cut motor cycles up and weld them back together on my drive. i couldnt get my tool kit under my seat if i wanted to (besides the fact that my seat is held on by a solitry 13mm nut in the rear mud guard).
BD.... QUOTE "There are probably even more spilts within the biking culture. There's those who love the speed and want the fastest bike possible and want to hammer everywhere on it. I think they are what is termed as petrolheads. Fast bikes, fast cars, fast wimmin.."
As secretary of Petrolheads M.C.C i represent this insinuation, we dont have any fast wimmin in our club.... some of us are big girls blouses some times though (not me of corse).
You are what you see your self as, what do you want to be, the choice is almost limitless.
1: A Motorcylist, rides all year round, has all the latest gear (usualy fabric/gortex/heated bar muffs/and a radio) and often has a matching wife who joins him on sundays, not known to frequent the biker scene and never does the biker nod. Never does his own maintance and always updates after the three years is up.
2: A Power ranger, colour coordinated leathers, knee sliders (worn boastfuly) and wearing a ducati cap when the helmet is off (or helmet rested on top of head.... that feckin cracks me up), leathers undone with a hairy chest all compareing the smoth edge on their rear tyres while sharon and tracy try to get their legs to straighten and smile blankly. Oh and think i am a Hells Angel...!
3: A Charlie upright, Rides when the weather is nice and usualy on a sunday, or to and from work in the summer then goes down the local in thier Mondeo.
4: A Comuter. usualy rides a CB250 or a SuperDream depending on pay scale, but only to and from work/train station and more often than not in a suit with a light jacket,loafas, cheep gloves and helmet left in top box.
I say all this tounge in cheek however. There realy is no set guide, as has been stated aready, the diversity and individual veiws on the bikeing scene differ so much. Not to mention the popularity of bike now compared the years gone by, it is no longer seen as rebelious as it was, you get the most unlikley charictures riding bikes now days.
But, when some one says to me "biker" i do have a preset image of some one in leather jeans leather jacket covered in patches, army boots and looking like they have just done a weekend in a field with cheep beer.
So what am i, i see my self as a biker, i wear leather jeans, a cheep unknown brand leather jacket with a waist coat over it with a patch from every rally i have been to and of corse our club patch. I regulary cut motor cycles up and weld them back together on my drive. i couldnt get my tool kit under my seat if i wanted to (besides the fact that my seat is held on by a solitry 13mm nut in the rear mud guard).
BD.... QUOTE "There are probably even more spilts within the biking culture. There's those who love the speed and want the fastest bike possible and want to hammer everywhere on it. I think they are what is termed as petrolheads. Fast bikes, fast cars, fast wimmin.."
As secretary of Petrolheads M.C.C i represent this insinuation, we dont have any fast wimmin in our club.... some of us are big girls blouses some times though (not me of corse).
You are what you see your self as, what do you want to be, the choice is almost limitless.
I don't think it makes any difference whether you call yourself a motorcyclist or a biker or whatever.
As others have said, what matters is how you feel about bikes - my husband simply doesn't understand at all the way I feel about bikes.
As for
When I had an accident (fairly minor as it goes) on my baby bike in 1998 my non-biking friends asked if I would ride it again and when I said "of course" they said "Aren't you brave! " and I said "No, just stupid! " Being brave is doing something you're scared of, I wasn't scared just wanted to get back on the road again. Mind you, when I did after 6 weeks, I was nervous for a long time, every time I saw a car at a junction I thought it would pull out on me - even found myself trying to go round bends upright!
After my off in October, I thought I'd be riding again by now, and I get so sick when I see others out on their bikes - I can drive the car now but haven't been to a club meeting cos I'm too envious! The only reason I decided to get a trike was to spare my family the worry cos I HAVE TO carry on doing my solo travelling, its like eating and breathing to me - still now it looks like a good thing cos I don't know how long till I'll be ok on 2 wheels again.
I never rode a bike, apart from a couple of step-thrus as a teenager, till after my girls were grown and left home. Now I've been to France a couple of times, done the National Rally once, the Round Britain Rally 3 years running, been to the TT, to lots of bike shows, written for a national magazine, seen lots of England and Wales (I'll get to Scotland one day), been to rallies and biker meeting places, and met lots of great people, some from other countries, some look like smart business people, some have long hair and tattooes, some rich, some poor, and all sorts in between, and one of the things I really love is that we all share the love of biking so the differences between us don't matter at all.
I truly hope that anyone who's just starting to ride or got their first bike or hoping to do so, or maybe satisfied to be a pillion, will get as much good out of the whole thing as I do. It's given me a new lease of life at a time when a lot of women are taking up cross-stitch! It keeps me young, gives me new things to aim for, and it's prolly saved my marriage too!
I don't care what I'm called - I'm ME.
As others have said, what matters is how you feel about bikes - my husband simply doesn't understand at all the way I feel about bikes.
As for
QUOTE
that would make most of us fast approaching 60 or over in 20 yrs
well thats a laugh, wish it was that far off for me!When I had an accident (fairly minor as it goes) on my baby bike in 1998 my non-biking friends asked if I would ride it again and when I said "of course" they said "Aren't you brave! " and I said "No, just stupid! " Being brave is doing something you're scared of, I wasn't scared just wanted to get back on the road again. Mind you, when I did after 6 weeks, I was nervous for a long time, every time I saw a car at a junction I thought it would pull out on me - even found myself trying to go round bends upright!
After my off in October, I thought I'd be riding again by now, and I get so sick when I see others out on their bikes - I can drive the car now but haven't been to a club meeting cos I'm too envious! The only reason I decided to get a trike was to spare my family the worry cos I HAVE TO carry on doing my solo travelling, its like eating and breathing to me - still now it looks like a good thing cos I don't know how long till I'll be ok on 2 wheels again.
I never rode a bike, apart from a couple of step-thrus as a teenager, till after my girls were grown and left home. Now I've been to France a couple of times, done the National Rally once, the Round Britain Rally 3 years running, been to the TT, to lots of bike shows, written for a national magazine, seen lots of England and Wales (I'll get to Scotland one day), been to rallies and biker meeting places, and met lots of great people, some from other countries, some look like smart business people, some have long hair and tattooes, some rich, some poor, and all sorts in between, and one of the things I really love is that we all share the love of biking so the differences between us don't matter at all.
I truly hope that anyone who's just starting to ride or got their first bike or hoping to do so, or maybe satisfied to be a pillion, will get as much good out of the whole thing as I do. It's given me a new lease of life at a time when a lot of women are taking up cross-stitch! It keeps me young, gives me new things to aim for, and it's prolly saved my marriage too!
I don't care what I'm called - I'm ME.
Yeah Bobbi good for you darling RESPECT BIG TIME
Have a look at my reply in here
Bobbi your family should be proud off you not trying to stop you doing what is as nataural to you as pissing up a tree is to my dog.
but then as you say they are not into the bike thing & so cant really understand.
remember what i said before christmas if you want to chat about anything any time give me a shout on msn or yahoo or the phone.
if you lost my number then look in the protected forum
Have a look at my reply in here
Bobbi your family should be proud off you not trying to stop you doing what is as nataural to you as pissing up a tree is to my dog.
but then as you say they are not into the bike thing & so cant really understand.
remember what i said before christmas if you want to chat about anything any time give me a shout on msn or yahoo or the phone.
if you lost my number then look in the protected forum
Bloody 'ell Womble you dont half pose a thought provoking post! 
Well for me I have 5 brothers three of which had bikes. I have grown up around them since i was a little girl. Been pillion ever since I can remember. In fact my mum was 8 months pregnant with me when she used to dodge around on her honda 125.........jees I forgot all about that.well I would wouldnt I.but my mum remineded me.
Same as a lot of us here, house, kids hubby all seemed to push biking to the back for a while. I always knew I wanted my own bike...always.... just time money and bottle I think held me back, but then I decided to do my DAS for my 40th last year.
I had only had my bike about 6 weeks when I had a life changing almost life losing accident. But here I still am! Almost fighting fit and as restless as hell to get another bike.
I class myself as a biker....why....because its the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning. I pine inside for what was left of my bike after the accident almost as though it had a life too. I keep a photo of my bike in my purse at all times. Like Biker Gran my husband does not understand at all and I dont even try to explain.........its a waste of time to the uninitiated.
I have the utmost respect for all of you on here especially in the face of adversity to continue biking.
Well for me I have 5 brothers three of which had bikes. I have grown up around them since i was a little girl. Been pillion ever since I can remember. In fact my mum was 8 months pregnant with me when she used to dodge around on her honda 125.........jees I forgot all about that.well I would wouldnt I.but my mum remineded me.
Same as a lot of us here, house, kids hubby all seemed to push biking to the back for a while. I always knew I wanted my own bike...always.... just time money and bottle I think held me back, but then I decided to do my DAS for my 40th last year.
I had only had my bike about 6 weeks when I had a life changing almost life losing accident. But here I still am! Almost fighting fit and as restless as hell to get another bike.
I class myself as a biker....why....because its the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning. I pine inside for what was left of my bike after the accident almost as though it had a life too. I keep a photo of my bike in my purse at all times. Like Biker Gran my husband does not understand at all and I dont even try to explain.........its a waste of time to the uninitiated.
I have the utmost respect for all of you on here especially in the face of adversity to continue biking.
the idea of the post was to get you all talking and posting, i found you can learn a lot from peoples reactions & answers
as to the thought provking bit
I only come up with a post like this when im sh!tfaced lol
as to the thought provking bit
I only come up with a post like this when im sh!tfaced lol
Womble
You didn't piss me off at all! Thought you put a good point accross that everyone has a view on in some form. Sorry if I sounded a bit heated, guess it must be a subject I feel some passion about
Think it was just my day for being taken the wrong way!
You didn't piss me off at all! Thought you put a good point accross that everyone has a view on in some form. Sorry if I sounded a bit heated, guess it must be a subject I feel some passion about
Think it was just my day for being taken the wrong way!
QUOTE(flossieaddams @ Jan 29 2004, 09:27 AM)
Think it was just my day for being taken the wrong way!
Ooer, I hope no-one takes me the wrong way, that would hurt!
QUOTE(set fazer to stun @ Jan 29 2004, 10:40 AM)
QUOTE(flossieaddams @ Jan 29 2004, 09:27 AM)
Think it was just my day for being taken the wrong way!
Ooer, I hope no-one takes me the wrong way, that would hurt!
Me, I suppose I'm a biker Grandad. Had 250 cc bikes when I was 16-18 But had an accident on a Francis Barnet Plover just after I was 18, bike was totaled and I spent a few days in hospital. When I got out I couldn't afford to get the bike repaired quickly and as I had a car I didn't bother to replace it. Then marraige and a child and a quick re-newal with several bikes and scooters (all 250 or under) from the age of 36 to 38 giving up when I had 4 of my mates killed on bikes in the space of a few months. Then followed the divorce, re-married and another child. had an accident and injured my back and as therapy started to ride a scooter/moped and really enjoyed it. Wife was supportive and suggested I might try to take a bike test. Went direct access and passed my test 4 years ago, 2nd attempt at the age of 48. My first real bike was a Diversion which I soon got rid of as I did not feel confident on it. The bought a Thundercat which I've now done 50,000 miles on, in November 2002 I bought a written off FZR 1000 Exup, which I have now streetfightered and is my NUTTER bike, but I still love the Cat and have no intention of parting with either.
I try to ride every weekend, but as I get older the very wet weather seems less interesting, but I don't mind the odd shower.
The motto now is Ride safely, but always make progress.
I try to ride every weekend, but as I get older the very wet weather seems less interesting, but I don't mind the odd shower.
The motto now is Ride safely, but always make progress.
Nice one ancientd, it is good to see some one with such determination, i hope that (god forbid) if i ever find my self in a situation that chalenges my love of riding that i manage to keep it together.
I like to think that i will, i have tons of people around me that would keep on at me to get back on, but it aint easy, i have only had a couple of minor offs but they still knocked me.
This form has realy opened my eyes to how strong and dedicated people can be.
Bikers ehh... they never learn do they, fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on.....
I like to think that i will, i have tons of people around me that would keep on at me to get back on, but it aint easy, i have only had a couple of minor offs but they still knocked me.
This form has realy opened my eyes to how strong and dedicated people can be.
Bikers ehh... they never learn do they, fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on.....
QUOTE
The motto now is Ride safely, but always make progress.
Nice one
QUOTE
Bikers ehh... they never learn do they, fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on,fall off, get back on.....
Someone in another place put it very succintly I thought. He said 'it went earth, sky, earth, sky, earth, ambulance'
(It's ok to laff cos he wasn't badly hurt!)
[quote=BikerGran,Jan 29 2004, 11:51 PM] [QUOTE]
Someone in another place put it very succintly I thought. He said 'it went earth, sky, earth, sky, earth, ambulance'
[/quote]
as long as the tarmacs dry and the sky's blue heheheh
Someone in another place put it very succintly I thought. He said 'it went earth, sky, earth, sky, earth, ambulance'
[/quote]
as long as the tarmacs dry and the sky's blue heheheh
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