That when a car moves out to the centre of the rd and indicates right that it will actually turn in that direction. I presumed this and headed down the inside to pass it when the car started to turn left instead. I smashed into his mirror, sending it down the road and managed to step off the bike. Lost the front brake lever and a smashed mirror. He admitted he had swung out to the middle of the rd but insisted he was indicating left. A blatant lie but due to no witnesses we agreed to go our seperate ways andsort out our own repairs. Managed to get a new lever and 2 mirrors for 29 quid from hunters and armstrongs on westgate rd very obligingly fitted them. Well guttedbut ok apart from a twinging knee but nay bruising. At least his mirror was a one with an indicator in and was well wrecked.

Bloody hell Mally, that could have been a nasty one.... 2nd off i heard about tonight, the other one was Bikerchick who binned her Bros... Both of you have been lucky and not been injured badly

Aye like he said could have been much worse, pleased your still with us and relatively unscathed.

yeah, glad to hear you're ok and the damage to the bike didn't hit your wallet too hard.

As for the cager, well he was obviously talking out of his arris, but as you say, no witnesses, so no proof. Still a twonk though

Bad luck mally.

At least you are ok

Bad luck Bikerchick, best wishes

Did I miss the thread or has it not been posted yet?

its not been posted, I found out using the phone!

I see this every day out on the road, Mal,
gobshytes moving out to the right to turn left do they think they're driving an Ar-tic?

As an ex trucker I always check my nearside mirror before turning left. What's wrong with mirrorS signal manoeuvre. Rather than just checking the rear view, check em all!

Glad you are OK mate.

Despite what signals (road positioning, indicators, etc) a driver is iving out -always assume the worse. You never know when they decide that they did not want to do that anyway, or they go to answer the mobile phone, or hey go to wallop an errant child in the back seat.

Pleased to hear both Bikerchick and Mally are ok car drives should be made to do a cbt to appreciate motorcyclists and increase awareness.

Whats a phone?

Glad to hear they are ok.

Seem to recall that you shouldn't pass such a vehicle until they actually start to turn. If you do, it's classed as undertaking or somesuch. Can any instructor advise?

Elephant - Mally was not asking the legality of his situation, he was merely reminding others not to take for granted the things we all do (well, all except you obviously). He is also a very experienced rider, so I doubt he needs your advice.
If I ever have an off and you're nearby, I will most probably have to kill you before you start spouting your sanctimonious crap

Of course I do stuff like this. I'm a new rider, FFS.
I just wanted to know what the safest guidelines were for such a situation. I don't really like the idea of having an off because I did or didn't do something.

I've just had the reminder of what not to do, so I wanted to make sure of what I can and/or should be doing. I was offering no advice, here... just asking for it and exploring the situation so I don't end up doing the same.

So far I've been very safe/lucky. I'd like that to continue, so I'm trying to learn everything I can.

I dont think that sounds right woody or you would have traffic backed up for weeks, like all manouvers made on a bike you have to use caution and common sence

Can't find the thread, but someone on here did the same a couple of years ago when a Land Rover was indicating right at a junction, moving right and decided to swing left instead. IIRC, that route would have taken the Landie straight into a brick wall. Instead they knocked the passing rider off. What can you do in such a situation?

Just don't want to spend my road time second-guessing every indicator and hesitating until a driver commits to their indicated actions.

eh!...but thats what everyone does. you have to anticipate what the other road users are going to do. thats why you have to scan ahead and forward plan, if your not doing that then there is something wrong with the way you ride using your road sence

It was Wilf taken out by the land rover by someone pulling into their drive on the left having indicated and moved right.

The short answer as Billy has already said, proceed with caution and only overtake when you feel it is safe to do so. Personally for me that means wait until the car has either stopped while it waits for oncoming traffic to clear or has already committed to the turn.

Seconded.

That's what I was thinking. I was just looking for further guidance. I've already had a narrow escape in a similar situation - car was turning left and there wasn't yet enough room for me to pass, let alone the impatient driver who tried overtaking us both. Only reason the driver didn't hit the oncoming car was 'cause they had two lanes and the oncoming swerved left to avoid twonk-face as he overtook.

I'm going through a phase of not liking the possibility of still getting hit, despite of how careful or correct my riding becomes. I'm obsessing over Roadcraft at the minute...

Not me I'm afraid. I've yet to hit a Land Rover.
I did whack a Tractor that indicated left but went right and then swung left again. It was my fault, the driver had to swing wide to get through a gate and I wa apssing him on the inside.

I can't recall the exact circumstances now, tho I seem to remember being there rather than just hearing about it - but a driver was once heard to say "yes I indictated right cos I was pulling over to the right before I turned left".

So the answer Woody, is, never EVER believe any driver is going to do what they say they're going to do till they've done it!

im not sure im getting this right, are you saying that you dont scan ahead to read the road and only ride as far as the car in front Ian?.

The more I read this thread the more I would have had that driver's head on a plate, this manoeuvre is bang out of order, I'd have been looking on the left side to see any parked vehicles, as yer do, and all clear? go for it.

I had five lessons with BSM before passing my test, moving out to the right before turning left was wrong whether he indicated or not, don't tell me I'm wrong in my opinion this bloke should be done for careless driving.

No, are you saying you would overtake a car at a junction when you don't know for certain which way it is going to turn?

See, it's sh!t like this that I'm worried about.

Leaving for work this morning, I was turning right at a small 3-junction roundabout. Car approaching from the left, slowing down to walking speed, I have right of way. I move off normally and lean into the turn. I make eye contact with the driver and he has almost completely stopped. As I glance at his front wheel the car suddenly blasts forward and I lean harder to move in towards the roundabout, rolling off the throttle a bit to let him get past and out of my way. He pulls alongside me and I feel his wing mirror brush my elbow. I see him give me a thumbs up as he passes.

So... what did I do wrong there, then?

As far as I can see, I was in the right. I had right of way, he slowed to stop, indicating that my route should be safe. I wasn't going particularly slowly round or anything that could even suggest hesitation and allow him to get away with pulling out on me.... so what the feck!!!!

Someone paid him?


Elephant - it doesn't matter if you have right of way, it doesn't matter if you didn't make a mistake - sometimes people are twonks and either don't care or are in too much of a hurry to think. That's why we ride defensively and always try to cover every possibility - it doesn't always work, but it cuts out a lot of accidents.

Aye -


RIP
It was
his
right
of way


Doesn't look very clever.

Is that why your purse is £50 lighter


Yeah, I know. I just want to be sure that I do everything I can to stay alive and try to learn from everything.
Preferably without resorting to riding like a terrified granny.

no mate, im saying i would scan ahead and forward plan my course of action, anticipation of what another road user is going to do is all part of that. if we were to wait in line when we came to every junction then it would defeat the main purpose of owning a bike and thats to make progress. Im not saying you should put yourself in danger when doing an overtake/undertake or whatever, but surely you have to assess the situation long before it gets to the stage where another road user doing a manouver could put you in danger.

Definitely agree with that part.

However, it seems mostly based on experience and awareness.
If a car is going round a small roundabout and isn't signalling (as so many of them do), I still find it hard to figure out which way they're going until they start to turn. I'm watching the front wheels all the time. So far I've only gotten it wrong once and was saved by my BHP, but I feel it's something I should not be having so much trouble with. I'm playing it safe as my instructor taught me, but I still wonder how many opportunities I missed.

Maybe it's now time to start looking at the next stage of training...

Billy we are actually saying the same thing. I'm not 'waiting in line', I'm anticipating this twonk in front may do some daft like turn left when signalling right and not putting myself in the position of being taken out when he does and only making the overtake when I feel it is safe to do so. Making pogress is one part of owning a bike, doing it safely is another. There are plenty of folk out there that do the first but I wouldn't consider they always do the second but they get away with it... sometimes. Each person's perception of risk is different which is why there is never an answer that is right for everyone, but I'd rather err on the side of caution and get there in one piece than be too bold and not get there at all.

thats why i asked what you ment Ian, read like you would just ride up and stop at the car untill it had completed its manouver...

I'd say you did right - you didn't assume that just cos the other driver should give way to traffic on the roundabout, that he would do that. O got taken out in exactly the same circumstances when I was a fairly new rider because I assumed that a car slowing at the RAB would see me and stop.

Sorry Wilf it was this one I was thinking of http://www.ukbikeforum.co.uk/forum/index.p...c=14018&hl=

That's the bit I was (and always am) concerned about.
How much of it is down to my own error and what I can do about my riding to make sure it doesn't happen (as far as is reasonable, anyway).

Fair enough if I've done everything I can and still get hit - That's why I have protective kit and insurance.
But at the minute it seems there's always something I could have done better in almost every riding situation. I'd just like to learn the good way, rather than the fatal one.