Ok my first post was ive bought a gsxr 600 as my first bike...got some advise...thanks.

Second post was my back wheel is slipping....got some advise...thanks..

Thought id fixed the back wheel sliding....but today it was worse than ever. My friend noticed a liquid on the right hand side of the tyre which i thought was water comming from the centre of the wheel. Worked out the Caliper was leaking brake fluid wen the back brake was pressed! Which was pissing all over my wheel and tyre.

So i took it to a local place after work to see if it was an easy fix as i didnt feel safe to ride home. They said the seals were probably shot as its a two piece caliper and to take to where i bought it and get it replaced under warranty...but drive safe as he hasnt seen one that bad ever.

So on my way home i had a friend stay behind me the whole way. One one of the corners i was going around the bike slid out, then caught grip and straightened up on the corner sending me straight across the other side of the road..where i tried to recover it, but couldnt and went off onto the grass/concrete/kurb.

I skidded acros the floor, and so did the bike...i won the race

Anyway got right up and lifted the bike with the help of my friend....result...indicator snapped and a few scuffs on the fairing and exhaust.

Now my question is this...the damage was a result of a faulty brake caliper which caused the crash. The bike is under warranty and ive had it no longer than about 4 weeks.

AM i entitled to have all the damages done at the cost of the place i bought it.? what advise can you give me?

Thanks guys youve always been a great help and i hope you can continue to do so.

I have written and re-written an answer to this about a hundred times and can't think of any nice ways to say what is bursting to come out. Somebody better step in here cos I aint the man for the job.

Don't get on a bike that is pissing oil onto the tyre.

i have to agree with nick on this one. the garage you took it too should have advised you dont ride it at all. in hindsight maybe you should have got the garage you bought it from come to collect it?

The only thing you may be able to do is get the garage you bought it from to pay for any repairs as it is obviously not fit for the purpose that it was sold. Just dont mention that you had noticed the leak and have taken it somewhere else first! otherwise the garage might try to get out of it by saying you shouldnt have ridden it if you had noticed the leak..

even if a bike is "sold as seen" recent changes to the law state it must be safe and legal to use if sold by a dealer or garage.

nick, yeah i know it was kind of stupid, but the brake fluid was only just on the outer edge (i know still stupid) and i had been riding it like this with my girlfriend on etc (god forbid anything happening to her, it felt ok then though) and it had been ok for a while then got worse. I didnt have anyway to get home, and the guy said i should be ok if i go slow. I think it was a spare of the moment thing to hop on and travel 5miles home slowly and safely...anyway mistake was made, now to rectify it, any advise.

If anyone saw my last post about slipping feeling....i thought it was low tyre pressure that i had.

ok so i should say it was checked after the crash...and thats what caused it....saying that they could say the CRASH caused the caliper to leak.

I have to say in your position I would have rang a recovery company and pay their ridculously high fee, or save some cash and join,

I'd rather pay £90 quid a year on breakdown cover than ride with oil on my tyre,

As of where you stand i'm afraid to say you chose to ride the bike like that, so they have an obligation to fix the bike but nothing else. Now if you try and lie and say you didn't no that was the problem they will turn round and tell you that, that wasn't the cause of your fault.

Pick it up LEARN from your mistakes, I don't mean to sound harsh but I get fed up of road users, blaming the road or the bike or someone else, when most of the time it's their own fault. then going and having the same accident just because they didn't take on board what they did last time,

Don't let it knock your confidence mate, I threw my old bike down the road the day I got it and I admit it was my fault, too much power to play with and I didn't respect it enough,

good luck on the gixer I road one before I got the FJ1200 and altough it was a nice bike it scared the hell out of me and it's half the size of the FJ, I am not a big fan of revs you see, i am more of a torque man myself.

Safe riding, and don't mean to preach and hardly experienced only been riding 2 1/2 years.

You've made a couple of basic mistakes here...

When you buy a bike, especially when you don't know what you're doing....ALWAYS ALWAYS take someone to come along with you that knows what to check...And I don't mean a mate who's just be riding a little longer than yourself and thinks they can corner like a racer...Someone 10 years or more your senior I would say as a rough guide.

Second thing here is that you've probably gone and bought the wrong bike for your level of experience which now has cost you money and knocked the confidence you had...

Some will flame me for that comment as I bought a performance bike early in my biking career....But I still had more experience than you with a good few thousand miles road riding under my belt on 4 low power machines when I bought the R6.

Not criticising you or saying what you've done is wrong because sh!t happens to all of us...Just learn from this experience and move on.

And yes, try to get as much as you can in compensation from the dealership that you bought the bike, but it will be a difficult battle as the damage has happened after the fact.

Good luck mate.

The problem is that you knew the fluid was on the tyre and it was not in a roadworthy condition. I think you'll get the calliper replaced but not the plastics.

Here's the catch 22 situation. They may say the calliper was damaged in the fall but if you have witnesses to say it was leaking before the crash, (like the guy at the garage) you'll have to admit to riding the bike in the unsafe condition.

Ideally, you should have stopped and got the garage who sold you the bike to come and pick it up or get the bike recovered by a breakdown company and dumped at the offending dealers. It would then have been up to them to fix it, having sold you something which was 'not fit for purpose' or whatever it is that the trading standards folks say. Maybe get yourself down to the citizens advice bureau

Also remember that your life is worth more than the bike and although you're getting stung badly, the fall could have been a hell of a lot worse and you could have been seriously injured.

Hopefully somebody can offer some legal advice but spend more time worrying about yourself in future. A bike can be replaced, you can't.

Sold as seen means sh!t...Its companies that try to sell crap unroad worthy bikes that wheel that one.

There are basic rules that dealers have to abide by and consumers have a lot of rights in this manner.

With a sold as seen bike, a consumer can still call and have the dealer collect the bike within (I think) a 2 week 'cooling off period' for instance.

I think more info can be gathered from the MCIA website http://www.mcia.co.uk

I don’t get this, I you buy a bike and you suspect a problem with the brakes and you ride it to and from the garage

Now if that was me I WOULD BE THINKING SPEED+NO BRAKES= ACIDENT.


I don’t think you have a case as you rode the bike knowing that there was a fault.

why did the guy let you ride home on a bike that is un-road worthy?

not having a go but im trying to understand you thinking.

Hope you were not hurt when coming off mate.

Sorry to say it, it was a school boy error on your part. Consider yourself lucky that it wasnt worse.

Hope you get it sorted and get back on the road.

Good luck.

You have to admit to riding it knowing there was a problem, otherwise it's just a crash and down to you.

I wish you luck in trying to get something out of the dealer that sold it to you, but I'm not hopeful - something similar happened to my son-in-law some years ago, and he ended up with nothing as his brand new bike was totalled.

It wasnt oil it was brake fluid, to put a few people clear. The fluid seemed to come out only when the pedal for the back brake was pushed. I was told not to use the rear brake and just takes things slow and get it to the garage ASAP. I wiped the tyre clean...and took it home. Ok maybe i should have waited 2 hrs or sso for the AA, but at the end of the day i went by advise and stupidity that i would be ok if i didnt use the rear brake and just took things easy.

People saying that i shouldnt of got a gsxr for my first bike and look whats happened....this would have happend on a 25cc bike at the same speed due to the nature of the crash.

My brakes both worked fine as id been using them to stop all week (just clearing up what someone above said).

So what your all saying pritty much is that because they sold me a bike that was unfit to be on the road....i can claim from them because i knew of it? so if i plead ignorance, and then say i had it independtly checked after the crash and it was due to broken caliper i will be in a better position?

this has done nothing for my confidense in respect that i have learnt from it, and will just go back to riding....not much else i can do really.

Sorry but I have to say something....

I am not getting at you here but I will try to explain as best as I can the whole situation as I see it.


Starting in reverse order.....

You just posted that it was brake fluid and not oil. Brake fluid is just a type of oil. This shows to me you do not have an understanding of the bikes you are riding. This isn't too bad but Sport bikes are designed for one thing and one thing only. Getting from A to B in the quickest time and doing this whilst balancing on a knife edge. You have to admit this takes a degree of skill and understanding, neither of which you have as a new rider. This isn't an insult, its just fact and we have all been there at one time or another.

The second thing happened because of your lack of understanding of the first point. You rode the bike with oil (call it brake fluid if you want, but it is still oil) on the tyre. Knowing the facts about brake fluid as you now do I am sure your decision to ride the bike would be different and we would all be posting about what a good decision you made.

The final piece to the jigsaw is you deciding to buy a Gixxer 6. Would you go out and buy a Mclaren F1 ??? No you wouldn't, excluding the cost it is a car based on a machine designed to win races. A GSXR 600 or a CBR600 or an R6 is a bike designed to win races and it is closer to the pedigree superstock bike than the Mclaren F1 so why do we think we can just jump on and be safe.

You are correct in saying the same would have happened on a 50cc (Don't know any 25cc bikes) bike but with more experience gained on such machines you would have read the signs and not ridden the bike.

Let this be a very valuable lesson and hope you do the wise thing and exchange it for a more user friendly model.

Don't be put off, if it doesn't kill you it can only make you stronger.

Nick

What NickR6 said as there isn't a lot that can be added to that .

Look at it this way, you'll never ride a bike again with anything on its tyres and you're still here with everything intact. It hurts when you damage your baby (imagine how I felt 1 month after buying a brand new bike for the wind to get under the bike cover and blow her over) but you're in one piece, it's all part of learning. I'm not intending to patronise you here but a bike is so much more unforgiving than a car (maybe that's why we love them so much) so you have to treat her with so much more respect.

Trust me, when you get your next bike you will look back at today and think "thank f**k it happened then".

I have to agree with MikeST where he says you'll look back and be thankful it happened... i came off within 10minutes of buying my bike. I don't mind saying i was acting like a chump and if she hadn't thrown me off at 20mph, she would have done it at 60mph instead! I learnt my lesson early on, and now it all fixed and looking beautiful again i thank my lucky stars it happened.

The textbook answer is the same as Nick's, its not what you want to hear but lets face it you shouldn't have ridden the bike with anything slippy on your wheel, or anything wrong with the bike for that matter

Saying that, i can also see how in the circumstances why you took the easy road, we've all done stupid things and took a little risk, if like 99% of the time nothing had happened then you'd be laughing.

As for the actual damage of your bike, i don't think you can get out of that one... i think taking it back to the dealer and telling the truth might help, along with a witness statement off that other bloke at the garage saying your bike calipers were fecked before the incident. Maybe because of that, try and get them to go halves on the cost of plastic or something? they wouldn't be obligated too tho

It is an unfortunate fact tho bud, that you rode a bike that wasn't safe to ride... I think your choice of bike is irrevalant, but having even a miniscule amount of brake fluid leaking on ANY bike is cause to be grounded i know its not what you want to hear, but biking is all about learning lessons so not making the mistakes again.

Good luck either way and i'm glad your not hurt

Thanks gone2mars thats is the best post that i can relate to.

I know what brake fluid is nick, i was under the assumption that someone thought it was oil from the road or engine that was on my wheel when they said oil in there post. I was being more specific.

Im also fully aware of how slippery brake fluid is as ive changed enough brake pads in my time and got the fluid on the floor.

After taking it to the garage i was told that if i didnt use any of the rear brake th fluid would not pump out. so i cleaned the back tyre as best i could and took the advise and got it home slowly but safely....or tried to.

I dont think its relevant what bike i did this on, or my riding experience...becaue as i said at the end of the day it would have been the same result on any bike...maybe worse on a smaller bike with thinner wheels and less surface area to grip.

Whats done is done, and im really looking at ways i can get my bike fixed. Most of which is all superfishal (sp). But the way im looking at this situation, if i had not of gone around to the garage to have it diagnosed...then the bike would have still crashed sooner or later under different circumstances...maybe the circumstances would have been worse. But if i was not to know it was brake fluid and thought it was just water comming from the wheel centre...and had no idea it was brake fluid, i then have some sort of case do i not?

The brake caliper recieved no damage, no visible damage to the caliper, and its the internals that are affected (apparently seals) which will not happen as a result of the accident. So i could then be in a position to possible claim damages surely?

All things considered, we could piss about all day worrying about the specifics, but whats done is done...

Personally, i would suggest you talk to the dealership (face to face), tell them exactly what happened and also share the oppinion that the bike was NEVER fit for use.

You can get a written statement off a proffesional, signed and sealed saying that the calipers were shot. and basically say seeing as the bike was never fit for use, your demanding repairs or a replacement.

The accident was still caused by them, even if you did ride the bike with the knowledge.

Obviously they might state the obvious, and say you willingly rode an unfit bike, but then counter that you were always riding an unfit bike, and were trying to get the bike back to the dealership...


Now, don't get me wrong, i agree 100% with the other members and i think we both know you deserve a good kick up the arris for doing such a stupid thing, BUT that shouldn't stop you from trying your luck with a dealer that sold you an unfit bike in the first place.

At the very minimum, your entitled to new calipers, but i'd just kick up a storm for the hell of it... see what they give you in return.

have a good read up on the sales of goods act here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/guides_to/car_dealer.shtml

Might want to put it into a letter or something, at least have a read up on it before you go visit the manager

Check out the links listed above, but also talk to your local Trading Standards service. They will be able to offer you advice and may (depending on the legal nature) be able to step in for you.

Get all the advice you can before speaking to the dealer (don't leave it too long though) and use it to back up your chat, but don't go in all heavy handed telling him he's in breach of XYZ. Just mention it if he gets awkward.

Good luck.

So your question in essence is....Can I get away with pulling the wool over the dealers eyes and deceive him into paying for the damage that was caused by you riding the bike with FULL knowledge that there was a leak from the rear brake !! That is between you, your conscience and the dealer.

My opinion is that the dealer is only responsible for the damaged caliper and if you had dealt with the situation a little wiser that would still be the only damage to the bike.

Everyone makes mistakes but sometimes you have to stand up and take the consequences firmly on the chin otherwise you just go from one disaster to another.

Cheers

I know two wrongs don't make a right and i see what your saying, but the dealer did do the naughty and sold him the bike in the first place...

What would we be saying if it was the other way round and a week earlier when he first complained about the problem? BikeNoob had been doing 50mph and come off the bike, the bike had the same damage and the problem was found to be the dodgy calipers... we'd all be up in arms telling him to burn down the dealers yard!

I'll say it again BikeN00b, bloody stupid thing you did, hope you've learnt from it. but all considered, the dealer still sold him a broken bike... surely he should be partly responsible?

And in my other post i said to tell the truth, not pull the wool. I'm simply saying that the dealer should at least consider some compesation, surely you can see both sides nick?

Yeah nick i see your point, but the reality is, it cold have happened a day before a week before etc...without my knowledge and that it the compensation i am after. I could have died, without knowing all the facts. The fact i did know them granted should have made me say "wait i best not ride this" but i think my attitude was the fact id ridden without any knowledge before and was ok...so with the knowledge i did have i just take it more cautiously and i should be alright...ok i was stupid...ive taken that and learnt from it and agree with gone2mars in every respect of what he has said.

Ive spoken to the dealer and pritty much told the story outright...they are going to check the rear caliper and if that is the result of my crash they will get the bike fixed. Which is kind of them and hope it pans out like that.

Thanks for all your advice given, lesson learnt, ill keep you posted if your interested with the outcome as and when i know.

Gone2mars thanks for your genuine understanding here. Nick thanks for your thoughts to which were valid.

EDIT: i blame nick for my crash. His signature says life is short ride hard...i did just that now look at me just messing

Yes, and if the cat didn't stop for a piss he would have caught the mouse. !!!

If it had happened a week before it would have been an accident and then compensation is just and fair..... But it didn't, it happened because you took a risk. The risk didn't pay off so you will not be needing to make the same mistake again.

It is possible the dealer didn't know about the fault or the fault occured after you bought the bike. I do hope this is the case as I don't want to be thinking he knew about it.

Hope it all sorts itself out any way.

Bloody hell, thats a good result... i was expecting for you to have to go halves or summit

Make sure you go to that garage and get a signed statement of the garage tho.... if you ever need it 2 months down the line the guy won't remember... cover your ass just in case.

I'm well chuffed for you actually! Learn from it and try get in the habit of checking your bike so this doesn't happen again

update: Guy came to pick the bike up and look at it too. I showed him the brake fluid comming out and the bit on the tyre. His reply: Ive seen scottoilers spread worse...i doubt this would have caused you to slide. So he is arguing that the brake fluid was not enough for be to skid off. I tried to explain whatever fluid was on there now has had all day to dry outside in the sun.

We will see...ill post picks up as i took some before i sent it off.

You can see the muck here spreading on the wheel iself after a drip:



Here you can see how its been travelling onto the tyre...this has dried a fair bit since:



And here you can see the drip on my finger from the caliper:



What you guys think? According to the manager of the shop in question there is not enough brake fluid to warrant the back wheel to slide

threathen them with trading standards

I'm afraid that you are going to have to chalk this down to experience. The contributary factor to the accident was totally your lack of experience, and as such I doubt the dealer will cover any of the damage, including the caliper, and in fact given the circumstances they are not liable to pay for any repairs since you rode it knowing that brake fluid was leaking onto the rear wheel. You should have contacted them and told them to come out and collect it and fix it as soon as you found the leak. Chalk it up to experience, and don't ride a bike that you think has a fault untill you have enough riding experience to cope. Sorry to be harsh, but it's a leson that needs learning.

As people have already suggested, get a statement from the other garage. If he thinks its the worst he has seen it must have been pretty bad.

Considering the tiny contact area with the ground when cornering, even the slightest patch of oil can have a massive effect...as you unfortunately found out.

Main thing is getting the other garage to back you if you stand a chance.

Even if they say the oil was not the only factor, try and get them to agree that it was an added factor and you will be on the way.....

Good luck.

trading standards (based at your local council) will have a list of independant motor engineers (these are the only people whos opinions count in court)....which is what will be most scary to this dealer.

Don't start thinking about court. As I have said and Ancientd has reiterated, take the hit, chalk it up as a leeson and move on. You have posted that you rode the damn thing with full knowledge of the leak. You have now posted the whole incident all over the net, come on lets get a grip on reality here. Would you light a cigarette knowing you had a gas leak. No is the answer, you would call the gas board to come and sort it. Same applies here. You have failed to get a handle on the whole situation and it is down to a lack of experience.

My last word on the situation.

The best you'll get whatever you do is a caliper...and realistically you want to avoid getting independant motor mechanic report as it'll be more expensive than the caliper. How much do calipers cost??

The best thing to do is to threaten them with trading standards, independant motor engineers report and so on...but it probably won't come to anything. These sort of ppl know how to worm their way out of things unfortunately.

looking the other way......



whatever the outcome with your dealings with the garage.....


be thankful you walked away with only real damage to your wallet and pride.....


Be Safe

I agree with Roddas.

I used to be in the trade. i had a bloke once call in and tell me that a bike he bought from us had developed a problem and dumped the sump oil out on the motorway leading to a crash. not nice or pretty. he only got bruises but it could have a lot worse. he wanted to take us to court but the second he said that before the accident he had been told by another dealer that his sump plug was not tightened properly and was leaking ( why the feck they didnt sort it out for him is another matter) i had to tell him sorry but you rode it for miles knowing it had a problem.

Sad to tell you fella that yes, the bike seems to have had a problem, but you chose to ride it knowing it had a problem. YOU have legal responsibillity to maintain your vehicle in a roadworhty and roadlegal condition - YOU knew it had a problem, BUT you rode it anyway.

Live and learn mate, cant blame dealers for everything. if you ride a bike knowing it has a fault its down to you. If this other dealer told you it was the worst leak they'd seen why the feck did you then try to ride it home?

the bike had a fault, youd been told about that fault by another independant dealer but you chose to ride it anyway? shame on you mate. take some responsibillity for what you do. if you paralyesed my son in an accident i wouldnt be annoyed with the dealer that sold you the bike id be annoyed with you for ridiing it KNOWING it had a fault.

Are you having a laugh here or what mate........you know all about the effects of brake fluid on your wheels...and you still rode your bike cos a guy in a garage told you it would be ok......my arris.....ive never read so much crap in all my life..

+1

He rode the bike knowing it had a problem which he oughtn't to have done, and so he can't claim for damage to the bike...

But the bike was under warranty and it shouldn't have had the problem in the first place, which is why the dealer should repair the caliper.....???

How can the dealer avoid doing this.....by saying it was the accident that casued the caliper to be broken in the first place?

All i can say is that i would not have ridden that bike given the advice you had been given. But it doesnt matter, only the law matters. its a matter of the cbt syllabus for instance that it is down to YOU if you ride a bike knowing it has a fault.

none of this my be quite what you wanted to hear mate but it is the truth, its YOUR fault you crashed, no one elses.

Sorry emilly crossposting, yes the faulty caliper should be replaced or repaired but as for the rest of it read the above.

If I bought something that someone else pointed out to me had a dangerous fault - be it bike or hairdryer, would I use it?..... erm... no
Bollox if I was a newbie or not, doesn't stand up. Common sense tells u that no, theres a dangerous fault, so you don't do it. Hmmm, I bought an electric fire, the plug smells funny, oh well, theres a warranty, I'll burn my house down and sue the company who made it..... if I'm still alive

R.I.P common sense

I already conceded he shouldn't have been riding the bike..

The question I was actually asking is how is it that the dealer can now avoid repairing the caliper which he would have been obliged to do in the first place?

easy emilly, deny it was originall and say it happened as a result of the accident.

It's unfair though, you've got to admit...

It's not really unfair, in law riding the bike knowing it had a dangerous fault is called 'contributory negligence' and that would be the dealers defence.

If the bike's under warranty he ought to fix the caliper, but the rest ids the rider's responsibility.


But come on peeps, have none of you ever done anything daft thinking "It'll be alright if I'm careful" - and it often is - but sometimes it isn't!

Your missing the point here BG.......whats getting up my nose is he/she is denying there own part of resposnability here...of feck i binned my bike....it must be the dealers fault......what utter bollocks

If he'd have binned bike before he'd noticed the leak it would have been dealers fault though wouldn't it?

assuming the bike was leaking fluid when it was sold

Oh emily......emily......come off it and read the post.....the fluid leak was seen by him and he chose to ride an unroad worthy bike....so its nothing to do with the dealer......