Heya,

Okay, I have some questions. One from me and another on behalf of a friend who is also just getting in to biking. We have trawled the various shops, articles, forums, websites etc but would also like to hear the opinions of people here;

1/. I am having trouble finding a jacket that fits properly.
I have a wide shoulders, a torso that is relatively small and very long, thin arms. I have to wear a 46" jacket just to get sleeves that are long enough, but this means that the torso is immensely baggy and all the armour panels just flap about loosely. My main worry is that when I come off the bike the armour panels wil just twist round and I'll be grinding plain leather and flesh.

I have already been round seven different bike shops in the local area and tried on everything they have, including a large Hein Gericke branch. Does anyone have any ideas as to where/how I can get a jacket where it and the armour fit properly?


2/. A friend has asked for the following

"I would like a basic answer to what exactly is classified as protective equipment!

for example:
jeans
leather jacket
hiking boots
gloves
obvious helmet

anything I might have missed and if these are wrong what is right?"


What do people think?

Thanks,
Woody.

Hey Woody, have you thought about getting your leathers made to measure? a good well looked after set of leathers should last years and years so in the long run its not as expensive as you might think.

the only thing that you leagaly have to have as protective clothing on a bike is a crash helmet, the rest is all common scence....Boots with protection for your shins, knees, elbows and sholder pads in your strides and jacket are a must

Yup as chili said or you can just keep on looking and hope to be lucky...

Made to measure can start from about £260 but you might have to think of a bit more because armour might be extra ...

So think up to £400 ish tops

Tis big money huh...you could also think about getting a jacket altered, if off the peg is close but not quite there it might be worth a look...phone around a few leather repair places and see what is possible..do the phoning before the buying

Basic saftey is about what you have listed but I would be looking to up grade jeans & boots as soon as poss...this time of year there are or will be soon a few sales on of last seasons kit..you should if you're lucky get boots and troons for under a ton if you're in the right place at the right time

Hey mate, give Hideout a go. Really friendly, helpful people who do made to measure and all types of alteration on off the peg stuff...

http://www.hideout-leather.co.uk/

My made to measure are Hideout, excellent fit and quality but you'll need a few more quid than £400!

Most off the peg stuff also isn't legally classed as personal protective equipment. Just because the armour in it has been tested to the relevant standard doesn't mean the rest of the suit has. You are right to be worried about the fit being too baggy as the armour will do nothing to protect you and could actually cause injury if it is able to move in the event of a crash.

Is it true that the Gov. have recently waved VAT on such equipment? (Or...was that just crash helmets?)

Are there any guidelines as to what is classified as as protective equipment?

Your right you would need more than £400 for a suit...I was talking jacket as per the question...but that said might as well go the whole hog..err cow if you are gonna go for made to measure

To be PPE it must meet the relevant standard for that item, this varies depending on what the item is. Most motorcycle kit has not even been tested let alone meeting any standard and you will often find disclaimers on the label of a garment where CE armour is added that the garment itself is not PPE.

You could get a jacket or trousers and get them altered, as a cheaper alternative. Try: Riders Leather Repairs (Cathy Streak)
18 Folley Green
Woodcote
Reading
Berkshire
RG8 0ND
Tel: 01491 681143
Email: ridersleathers@btinternet.com
I have used this service and found it good vfm.
There is no agreed standard for PPE (although its slowly making its way thru the EU). Read TC's article, on this site, on clothing to give you a better picture.

here mate, to paste something my friend rc30 pmd me while back, hope this could help.


All of these companies do made to measure to your exact specification, and crowtree are no more expensive than a good set of off the peg leathers.


Crowtree - http://www.crowtreeleathers.co.uk/ I know people who race (and crash) in these leathers and reckon they are excellent.

Hideout - http://www.hideout-leather.co.uk/ I know someone who used to race in Hideout leathras and crashed - hardly a mark.

BKS - http://www.bksleather.co.uk/ exceptional but expensive.

Sorry but in my book it is;

Protective trousers with at least knee armour (textixle or leather, your choice) if you must have jeans - get Draggin jeans (with kevlar) and buy some rubber knee armour that you can slip out when needed.

Good protective jacket with elbow armour and pref a back protector of some kind - at least foam! Ideally you should be able to fasten the jacket to the trousers to stop it riding up in the event of an off.

Hiking boots - I would just about take a pillion with good ankle boots - but not often, for regular riding I would insist on decent boots with good ankle protection

Gloves - proper m/cycle gloves with at the very least good palm protection

Properly fitted helmet.

Jeans- cotton fibre, wont melt on your legs when skidding down the road. hot in summer, cold in winter, a pain to dry out! Always in fashion!

Leather jacket - you + cow + road sandwitch, the bikers choice! Look cool, good abrasion resists, get it wet and wait a week to dry it, but everyone loves leather!

Hiking boots? kinda not tall enough. Want to wear lace ups? get some latest british army boots.

What kinda gloves, there are soooo many, I'd go def for leather here.

Hideout seem pretty cool, actually. Thanks for that!!

Something else that has occurred to me - What do people think of this one;

I have a professional cordwainer friend who has made several leather coats, trousers etc for me in the past, all to great standard. Among other things, she also recyles period leathers and does up second hand stuff. I have seen her stock room many times and have ample evidence of her experience with motorcycle leathers.

I could get her to tailor fit a bike jacket and trousers to me and then attaching 3.8mm split-butt leather panels to the outside to cover shoulders, elbows, forearms, spine, hips, thighs, knees (and any other skid areas that people can think of).

Obviously the panels will be padded beneath to cushion the impact and I was thinking 3.8mm leather should be thick enough to guard against the tarmac slide.


What do people think (be nice now)?

Thanks,
Woody.

Doesn't sound like a bad deal at all. 3.8mm is a decent thickness and don't feel afraid to blatantly copy bits of jackets that you like the look of. If you read some of TC's articles on kit it might also help your design and decisions.
If your mate has done biker kit before she may already have a good idea of what works well and what doesn't (and if she does a good job for you there may be other people on the forum who may wish to take advantage of a another provider of bespoke leathers - does she have a website?)

Not bad. But I would get some proper armour for; knees, shoulders & elbows. These are really cheap & can be sourced from almost any sizable bike accessory shop. Have your friend fit these & you'll have a pukka set of leathers, as well as being pretty damn unique.

Oh just to confirm what was said before, have a zipper to zip top to bottoms. I had mine zipped when I high-sided in July & Id've lost skin if I hadn't!

Well, I'm an awkward bugger to fit too. Depending on how big your budget is? I'd def suggest getting a jacket that fits fine body lengthwise and in the arms,,,, dont worry so much about the loose fit just yet ((bear with me )).
Once you've got one to fit your arms and body length,,get some one GOOD at sewing,, to sew several D-Ring straps an rings into the sides of the jacket (( so you can make a huge jacket aadjustable to fit us slimmer blokes with big arms)) looks mad as assholes (straight from the funny farm)just like a straight jacket,,, but means it adjustable to allow a couple jumpers in the winter

Hmmm... not sure I'd be happy with loads of metal rings at best waiting to make an impression on my ribs at worst waiting to catch on something as I slide down the road or rip off and leave me with little protection from a now loose jacket.

3.8mm leather it damn thick! Most gear is made of 1.4- 1.8mm thick leather. You may find such think leather very restrictive and uncomfortable. If they are already decent motorcycle jacket and trousers (not fashion items) then probably not necessary if they fit properly.

"3.8mm leather it damn thick! "

Yeah, it's great stuff, isn't it!!
3.8mm split-butt is what I used to make armour from back in my days of Live Roleplay. A friend does the same for re-enactment, except he hardens it with boiling oil!!

What I was thinking of is soak-shaping sections of leather to look like the armour panels on those 'fishnet suits' in the Hein Gericke shops. These would then be fitted to the outside of the jacket, the idea being that these take the brunt of the damage in an off and can then just be replaced without having to either rebuild the garment or buy an entire new one.

Same for trousers, although I might rip some designs off the plate armour that my swordsmith makes. She should be able to fit the clothes to allow an underlayer to be added in winter.

Yep, zipping top to tail sounds a very good move!! Will do.

Another thought is the footwear - I already live in BCH or Danner combat boots. I wonder of she can spruce them up in any way....

I like the idea of the thick leather armour panels but i would prefer the panles themselves somehow fitted inside the garment. that way the method of attatchmenet to the outside wouldnt be a cause for concern. Ie - the panels would not be worht sh!t even if they were a foot thick if they simply ripped off the jacket in the event of a bit of road contact. if they are underneath the outer sleeves they would be easilly fitted into pockets and not subject to the stitching ripping out.
3.8 mill leather panels with some sort of foam padding twixt you and them will be superb if you can make sure they stay put during and accident.

The best way to make sleeves for instance is to roll the leather around the arm with the only seam being up the inside of the arm ( forearm to inner elbow) seeing as the outer arm area is what will contact the road. Double stitched, folded seams with glued tape up the inside as well ala joe rocket race suits.
be carefull you dont over do it and end up like a knight in armour unable to bend and flex.

If this lady makes you decent kit dont be afraid to extoll its virtues here mate, we're all for giving credit where its due.

Leathers do use 1.4mm upwards but tend to use layers of it so in the impact areas they may use three times thickness which will relate to about what your are talking about....but seam strength and the way the layers are formed will make all the difference to how effective they are....

Good luck